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Inside Popcorn Time, the Piracy Party Hollywood Can't Stop

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Re: Inside Popcorn Time, the Piracy Party Hollywood Can't Stop

#261
post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Available for free Windows wasn't ever free (until very recently, and even that isn't exactly the whole story). A big reason for the sheer quantity of bloatware on Windows PCs even nowadays is because that bloatware subsidizes the cost of Windows. I know (and agree with) what you're getting at (that inexpensive commodity products dominate more easily than expensive niche products in a given industry), but comparing…

Legally it wasn't free. But illegally it always was, at least it was as good as free. In fact Microsoft itself wanted people to do it. Because if students and ordinary people pirate their OS, they will be trained to use it in everyday life. Later on, they would sell the OS to enterprises when the same people would eventually work there. That way they can always claim their OS was the most widely used OS in the indust…

Free as in legally free is what I meant; otherwise, we can argue all day that OS/2 and Solaris and OS X and IRIX were "always" free since it was (and indeed, still is) possible to pirate them.

You're also significantly overestimating the number of folks who actually installed Windows themselves, let alone who did so with a pirated version. Most Windows installations are OEM preinstallations, and Microsoft has been well aware of this (and actively encouraged this, albeit being dinged in the process for violating the Sherman Antitrust Act).

Re: Inside Popcorn Time, the Piracy Party Hollywood Can't Stop

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or because your opinion that iTunes is "easy to use" and "extremely high quality" is just that - an opinion - and is not an opinion which is universally shared among all people or even a significant majority of them (myself included). Now, with that said, between Amazon Prime and Netflix I haven't found many reasons to pirate things, but right now that involves jumping back and forth between two different marketplace…

High quality isn't really an opinion. Their encoding is fantastic. Better than blu-ray re-encodes which were the primary torrent source just a few years ago. They're encoding off raw source so it's exceptionally good. Easy to use is pretty factual in a relative sense. A mere 15 years ago you had to drive out to store to rent a disc and then take it back. Those asshole rental stores made all their money through exorbi…

> High quality isn't really an opinion. Their encoding is fantastic. Better than blu-ray re-encodes which were the primary torrent source just a few years ago. They're encoding off raw source so it's exceptionally good.

I'm sure one could crank out better quality with Handbrake or raw FFMPEG when used correctly.

> Easy to use is pretty factual in a relative sense. A mere 15 years ago you had to drive out to store to rent a disc and then take it back. Those asshole rental stores made all their money through exorbitant late charges.

By that logic, then, literally every streaming service - including the shitty ones like HBO Go - is "easy to use".

> 1) Start menu 2) Type iTunes 3) Hit enter. 4) Click iTunes Store 5) Click search 6) Type 'Interstellar' 7) Click 'Interstellar' 8) Click rent

That's nice, but now we're going into the desktop client, which further proves my point. I was more or less giving you the benefit of the doubt by assuming you were referring to the Apple TV variety (since I don't own an Apple TV), but now that it's clear that you're referring to the desktop client, I can now speak from experience that the iTunes you're referring to is easily among the shittiest media players ever made. It makes Windows Media Player look like a timeless masterpiece in comparison. Slow and buggy (especially on Windows), and a user interface that looks like it was designed in 1995 (probably because it was designed in 1995) and never improved.

I'd certainly rather get it for free than have to pay to use that pile of bovine manure.

Re: Inside Popcorn Time, the Piracy Party Hollywood Can't Stop

#263
post #93
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are asking for the impossible, people are not going to pay for what they can always get at better quality for $0. Fans are happy to curate the art the like and will always do a better work , and for free. The only thing that might make sense is if they distributed an original instead of a copy, i.e. a different movie to every user, a different song etc. Copyright is just not compatible with the digital world, it…

>>people are not going to pay for what they can always get at better quality for $0 This is precisely why I think Apple won't last much long in the mobile/watch battle. Android is like the Windows of the 90's and early 2000's. Available for free, with hardware largely being a commodity, and all Google caring about the traffic and market penetration. Apple will have to growingly fight to push their products into the m…

> In fact this is already happening in India and China.

This might happen at some point but they certainly haven't reached that point yet. Apple revenue is still growing tremendously YoY in China. [0]

[0] http://techcrunch.com/2015/04/27/apples-revenues-in-china-so...

Re: Inside Popcorn Time, the Piracy Party Hollywood Can't Stop

#264
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are asking for the impossible, people are not going to pay for what they can always get at better quality for $0. Fans are happy to curate the art the like and will always do a better work , and for free. The only thing that might make sense is if they distributed an original instead of a copy, i.e. a different movie to every user, a different song etc. Copyright is just not compatible with the digital world, it…

Fans are happy to curate the art the like and will always do a better work , and for free. LOL no. Sure there is no shortage of little YouTube videos that replace some kinds of TV content but most people don't have the creative skills required for high quality narrative content. It's precisely because this is in such short supply that popular shows are pirated in such enormous quantities. If there were so much great…

A few typos in there...should have said the subject matter won't look interesting, and of course screenplays are rarely better for being written by committee.

Re: Inside Popcorn Time, the Piracy Party Hollywood Can't Stop

#265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good grief you guys. How many films do you think make that kind of money? Billion dollar film franchises happen about as often as billion dollar startups - often enough to be something you might get lucky with, but the odds of that happening for you are staggeringly low. And even then, those films have as much or more spent on advertising as on the production, which is part of why it's such a high-risk business and m…

I was refering to what you call "unfashionable old TV show". Specifically I was hoping somehow to use this model to resurrect firefly... That said if that model cannot sustain huge movies like we see them today, that may mean we end up with smaller movies.

Ah, this model works very well for that use case, and you should definitely read this: http://www.buzzfeed.com/adambvary/joss-whedon-on-kickstarter...

It is easier to do a feature film and a whole TV series, because while your props, costumes, sets etc. can be reused and things do speed up a bit with familiarity you're still looking at spending maybe $200,000/week in salaries and overhead. Drop me a line if you really want to know more about the production side. I'm thinking of writing up an e-book or something, partly in anticipation of the SEC opening up proper investment-style crowdfunding and partly to put together cash money for a film I want to do.

On smaller films, yes and no. What you'll see is more of a bimodal distribution - the big megastar films like the Avengers or anything with an A-list cast (eg 2 big stars and a few small ones) are not going away - those people know what they are doing in terms of story, production, marketing and so on and the people that work on them are the cream of the industry. Even when the results feel forced (eg some of the Star Wars prequels) they still make their money back many many times over.

And there will still be lots of small budget films, partly because it's more accessible due to technology, partly because people need some way to get onto the industry ladder, and partly because it's addictive. But times are tough budgetarily; to quote on industry exec overheard at the last Sundance, 'what used to be a $10m film is now $5m, what used to be $5m is now $3m, $1m is the new $3m....').

It's important to remember that costs don't scale linearly, but they go up in fits and starts, depending on which guilds and unions the production company has signed contracts with. So if I'm doing my first feature film, I can pay some writer a few thousand for a screenplay, or better, write it myself. But if I want a budget above a certain size I'd be better off with a Writer's Guild of America member (not least to tempt investors, who don't actually know from reading a script and a budget whether a film is going to be any good), and the minimum price for a WGA to turn in a feature script is $92,000. That's even if you write it yourself, eg Quentin Tarantino gets paid to write the script, direct the film, and produce the movie (as he should, because each of those is a full-time job in its own way). So when you make films in the tens or hundreds of thousands budget range, it's OK to ask people to work for free or pay minimum wage and buy worker's comp insurance, but once your budget is over a million your crew costs jump substantially because now the unions want a piece. And while I'm not that big a fan of unions it's mainly because they bring a lot of extra administrative bullshit and some obstructive work rules. The jump in expenses because of extra pay is just what people deserve, because of the inherently unsteady nature of the work, the very long hours and elevated physical risks, and the fact that virtually everyone in the industry does a huge amount of work for free or stupid cheap.

The basic problem from internet distribution, legal and illegal, is not so much the actual downloads in many cases as the fact that it makes revenue very unpredictable for producers and investors, and so the lower end of the market faces constant economic pressure because investors are understandably wary. I expect this to stabilize a bit as Netflix, Amazon, and others start doing more global buys, and equity crowdfunding is finally allowed to take place. But the practical reality for people in the industry has been that internet distribution and the culture of working for free that goes with it have broken a lot of the lower rungs on the ladder. I expect to see demographics within the film industry skew a bit older over the next decade because of this.

Re: Inside Popcorn Time, the Piracy Party Hollywood Can't Stop

#266
post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The DRM for DCP lets you audit who played your movie. It's not that expensive (I think $7500 or so plus a small per-copy fee), but if a film gets any kind of release at all this is a lot cheaper than paying someone to get on the phone and call around to every theater that booked it to get a written report of how often it was screened etc.

It roughly doubles the price of the digital projectors (granted, a more-or-less one-time fee of an additional ~13k USD). If auditing was all that was needed, I'm sure you could just tag the digital audio track of 35mm as well (or any non-drm'ed digital format).

Yeah, but a lot of the digital projectors for existing theaters were installed with the aid of financing from the major studios on pretty decent terms for the exhibitors, plus (I've heard) you can get away with paying the projectionists a bit less because they don't have to do as much.

The thing is that striking a copy of a 35mm print would have been a) slightly technically inferior compared to doing so from a negative and b) costs a lot, like $35k, so while there was a little 35mm print piracy it usually involved shenanigans like fraudulent damage claims or somesuch.

With digital distribution, you're giving people a copy of the film in 4k which is as good as the state of the art in Hollywood a few years ago. If you didn't have all the DRM on there the incentives to make a copy are almost overwhelming. It doesn't even need to be a perfect copy, ProRes is so good that most consumers wouldn't notice the difference.

Re: Inside Popcorn Time, the Piracy Party Hollywood Can't Stop

#267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hand-over-fist profits? Only at the very top of the market. If you're producer of one of the top 50 or so films, yes people are shoving money at you. In the top 100, you probably broke even and people will be shoving money at you when it hits the home video market. In the top 101-200 films, You'll most likely make your money back and enjoy a modest profit. Outside of the top 200 films? Then your box office takings we…

Right, but it's the makers of the big, top-50 films that are the ones that are ridiculously vocal about piracy, not the ones making the small top-200 (or less) films (unless they're flops by the big filmmakers). And the makers of those films can still monetize by licensing broadcast/distribution rights (i.e. to Netflix or to a non-profit for its "Movie Night" or what have you); from there, one can still get a very go…

OF course it is, they're the ones with the big platform to tell people about it.

And the makers of those films can still monetize by licensing broadcast/distribution rights (i.e. to Netflix or to a non-profit for its "Movie Night" or what have you); from there, one can still get a very good estimate of an earning potential that's actually reliable, rather than one that's entirely dependent on an obsolete business model that's crumbling right before everyone's eyes thanks to the Internet.

That's a nice idea, but you're putting the cart before the horse. You can't license a film that hasn't been made yet unless you have a very bankable package(of stars and other talent), and you can't easily get estimates of earning potential for other films because Netflix and other digital distributors don't publish that stuff - it's much harder to get information about the home video market compared to box office data. Licensing to broadcast or other distribution channels isn't something that just happens automatically - there's a huge, exacting, and expensive list of deliverables requirements, and it costs money to go to a film market or work through a sales agent. Even when everything goes smoothly, it usually takes a small picture a couple of years from when it starts looking for money to when it gets sold, and the sale often simply covers the costs of production.

Frankly, I don't think you grasp the economics here very well at all. Everyone knows the existing industry paradigm is on the way out, and has known that for a good long while. The problem from the industry standpoint is that the internet/tech sector loves disrupting things but is not that smart about monetizing them - witness the large number of tech companies that don't make a profit, and the fact that the main revenue stream for internet companies that do make a profit is from advertising. You know who has taken that to heart and uses that business model in the movie world? Adam Sandler. His films involve a bunch of highly-paid famous people, very cheap production, and crappy wrote-in-a-weekend stories with massive product placement opportunities, for which he takes a salary of about $20m a picture. Unlimited distribution works fine there because the film is basically an elaborate commercial, but it's hardly a good industry model.

Re: Inside Popcorn Time, the Piracy Party Hollywood Can't Stop

#268
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll respond to this because I think you're missing the point. I'm saying that the "market makers" have made the "actual market" in a way that is self-defeating when technology no longer favors their historic distribution model. Like you say, the market is hobbled by artificial barriers, like geographic restrictions, that don't really exist on the internet. A significant factor in the inferior experience of streaming…

It's not about technology fitting the business model. People who complain about availability don't seem to realize that a lot of existing film properties are subject to long-term contracts that can't simply be torn up. I don't see anyone organizing film and TV lovers together to buy out the contract rights and make the film they want to watch available worldwide, do you? Nor do I see people putting their own money at…

> invent all sorts of reasons about why they shouldn't have to pay or wait for it.

> a large number of people are simply selfish and want something for nothing.

I can tell you're solidly in the relevant industry, since you seem to ascribe quite a bit of malice toward your own consumers. If I can try to change your mind, one final time, it would be to say that this strong demand for your product arises because consumers greatly appreciate your product, but they don't appreciate your business strategies. (This could be said about many industries, but let's stick to this one for now.)

That is a mismatch, and in the presence of dramatic technological changes, it suddenly is very much about the business model fitting the technology (not vice versa, as you put it). Finding a way to renegotiate licenses for the new world is something the music industry has slowly found a way to do. Publishers are not there yet. Nor are films and TV. The result in music has been a fairly large-scale change in how that industry works that other content sectors are not ready to accept. In the meantime, consumers still have the demand and the technology clearly exists to fulfill it outside of your revenue model. I'm in no way justifying piracy; I'm simply explaining in a factual way why it's getting worse for you. I'll just leave it at that.

Re: Inside Popcorn Time, the Piracy Party Hollywood Can't Stop

#269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Your VPN provider's IP address is public information. A quick subpoena is all it would take to reveal your identity. Seems like a risky way to watch Game of Thrones. At least on Usenet a download is just a download." A subpoena can only work if the VPN services keeps logs of its user's transactions. Some do and some don't. Without logs there is nothing to subpoena. When evaluating a VPN it is very important to find…

So how do you ensure that they don't keep logs?

There really is no way to ensure that unfortunately. You can only go by reputation and their own statements in that regard. The resource I linked is a good place to start an investigation. At least it weeds out those that don't even make the claim and there are many of those.

Re: Inside Popcorn Time, the Piracy Party Hollywood Can't Stop

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well do get in touch when someone sets up a postcapitalist film company that's willing to pay for camera rental, meals, wages and all the other expenses that go into making a film, because the fixed costs of making the original work haven't gone away. I find discussions like this one really aggravating to read because there seems to be total indifference to the fact that producing a movie to entertain you for two hou…

Mosfilm--back in the USSR

Hehe. I have a quasi-nostalgia for the Soviet film era.
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