Baltimore Residents Begin Clearing Debris After Night of Riots • Hacker News Board

Re: Baltimore Residents Begin Clearing Debris After Night of Riots

#81

Post by Lancey » Tue, Apr 28, 2015, 1:48 PM UTC

vinay427 wrote: post #79

Lancey wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Police do a bad thing: "You can't blame all cops for a few bad apples in isolated incidents." Protesters do a bad thing: "Pathetic rioters! Ungrateful youths! Sit down and do as you're told!"

No one's saying that. My comment simply mentioned that cinder blocks were apparently being thrown at firefighters by some protesters. I fully support peaceful protests as they are an effective way to enact change, but violent acts really only harm innocents and turn public support away.

I meant that as a response to crusso. When protesters throw things, it's a blight on all protesters, but when cops throw things, it's just an incident.

Re: Baltimore Residents Begin Clearing Debris After Night of Riots

#82

Post by crusso » Tue, Apr 28, 2015, 1:49 PM UTC

Lancey wrote: post #67

crusso wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a bit of a leap to say that the cops helped start the riots because there are a couple of incidents of cops throwing something. From the video on the link you referenced, it looked like the cops were in full retreat from a wild crowd throwing objects. One of the cops half-heartedly tossed something back... inappropriate response on his part, but hardly evidence that he was the instigator in anything.

Police do a bad thing: "You can't blame all cops for a few bad apples in isolated incidents." Protesters do a bad thing: "Pathetic rioters! Ungrateful youths! Sit down and do as you're told!"

Is there a need to twist what I said? I didn't generalize the cops or the protesters.

The poster to whom I was replying stated that the cops "helped start the riots" by throwing objects. I pointed out the problem with that argument, but I'm not excusing the police categorically.

Re: Baltimore Residents Begin Clearing Debris After Night of Riots

#83

Post by madez » Tue, Apr 28, 2015, 1:55 PM UTC

owenjones wrote: post #75

madez wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do many countries with cold climate didn't have these issues while many countries with hot climate tend to do? Why do countries which didn't have unsafe streets now do after immigration?

Hmm, today I learned America has never had a riot before. Although I seem to distinctly remember my city of Philadelphia rioting pretty good after the Philadelphia Phillies won the World Series...

Your sarcasm is misplaced.

In fact, America has seen a lot of protests and riots, for example in Brazil and Mexico.

Re: Baltimore Residents Begin Clearing Debris After Night of Riots

#84

Post by mc32 » Tue, Apr 28, 2015, 2:05 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #71

mc32 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn't the police. The police are a good target of authority. The real problem is economic. Even with all the current police injustices, the negative impact from them is less than the impact if they withdrew from the neighborhood. In that sense they are a net good. Of course people want the peace and prosperity reduced crime brings but also want less authority looking down but most of all they want economi…

It should be noted that the police can be used as an economic weapon via tickets/fees/fines. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/11/26/h...

True, but that's an injustice which affects all poor communities. But I hope this interpretation of fines as revenue stream gets revisited and tossed out. The problem is this came about from anti tax initiatives like prop 13 in Calif. Money has to come from somewhere to keep the lights on.

I also don't think the fines and other ridiculous fees are used as weapons, but rather path of least resistance in generating revenue because people vote taxes down.

Re: Baltimore Residents Begin Clearing Debris After Night of Riots

#85

Post by esrauch » Tue, Apr 28, 2015, 2:14 PM UTC

craigwblake wrote: post #61

Lancey wrote: post #9

It's unfortunate that it had to come to this, but I believe the rioters were justified in their actions. If the police departments in the United States do not account for their actions, or worse, defend officers that have committed acts that show an indiscriminate disregard for the well being of those they're sworn to protect, they should be prepared to face violent resistance from the people.

Are you aware that it's not the police or city who own the CVS? It's also not the police or the city who own the 7-11. It's not police or the city who own Binta's African Hair, or the community center, or the stores in the Mondawmin mall, or the McDonalds, or the majority of the other property that was damaged. It's individuals, private citizens, neighbors of those who are looting. Will you please explain how looting…

A black man killed in police custody and large peaceful protest doesn't even register as a blip on any radar. It was a footnote in the media and something politicans ignore practically every month in the US.

The riots have very significantly raised this issue to the public. Sure a lot of people are just going to write it off as mindless violence (and a lot of it is) but in reality destruction of random private and community property is literally the only way that the rage can be channeled. It isn't feasible for them to burn down the police station, or else they would have.

These people are literally destroying their own community which is failing to serve them. Seems like pretty powerful message and effective imagery for the media to me.

Re: Baltimore Residents Begin Clearing Debris After Night of Riots

#86

Post by cafard » Tue, Apr 28, 2015, 2:28 PM UTC

madez wrote: post #22

rayiner wrote: post #3

My wife and I live in Baltimore, in Mt. Vernon. We were having dinner the other night in Bolton Hill (a quiet residential area), and four guys ran by the restaurant and tried to throw a chair through the window (chairs turned out to be heavier than they thought). People vandalized the Rite-Aid a few blocks from our apartment, and set fire to a building we could see out our window. Being from Bangladesh I'm not worrie…

Why do many countries with cold climate didn't have these issues while many countries with hot climate tend to do? Why do countries which didn't have unsafe streets now do after immigration?

Probably because there aren't enough people in Greenland to get a good riot going. Shakespeare wrote about riots in England--some of them, to be sure, targeted against Germans. Scotland has had its riots, Berlin has had some. I could mention the Boston Tea Party, but let's face it, those Yankees were immigrants.

Re: Baltimore Residents Begin Clearing Debris After Night of Riots

#87

Post by throwaway000002 » Tue, Apr 28, 2015, 2:34 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #3

My wife and I live in Baltimore, in Mt. Vernon. We were having dinner the other night in Bolton Hill (a quiet residential area), and four guys ran by the restaurant and tried to throw a chair through the window (chairs turned out to be heavier than they thought). People vandalized the Rite-Aid a few blocks from our apartment, and set fire to a building we could see out our window. Being from Bangladesh I'm not worrie…

I find your relaxed attitude quite perplexing. Only one moment of chance, madness, and anguish may have shattered your life. Shouldn't you be outraged at the fragility of your social order?

I'm sorry, but you're American. I've read your insightful, articulate comments. You were educated here, you live here, and you contribute to this society. You should be indignant that your conception of your place in America is framed by some past life. First, it is dishonest. You do not live and survive in Dhaka. And second, to me at least, it is an indication of your internalized acceptance of non-American-ness.

This is a problem of America. It is a problem for blacks, it is a problem for the poor, it is a problem for the immigrant, it is a problem for the non-sexually normative, it is a problem for the incarcerated, the list just goes on and on. Yet somehow it is totally un-American to recognize this as a problem. Perhaps it is the very definition of American-ness.

I am a techie. Today, I loved the discussion of Linus on endianness, and poor userland. I can't help but wonder what a gift it is to have him in America, but also wonder if he has fears about the future of the country his children will embrace fully as their own.

My wishes for the safety of you, your wife, and your city.

Re: Baltimore Residents Begin Clearing Debris After Night of Riots

#88

Post by rayiner » Tue, Apr 28, 2015, 2:57 PM UTC

throwaway000002 wrote: post #87

rayiner wrote: post #3

My wife and I live in Baltimore, in Mt. Vernon. We were having dinner the other night in Bolton Hill (a quiet residential area), and four guys ran by the restaurant and tried to throw a chair through the window (chairs turned out to be heavier than they thought). People vandalized the Rite-Aid a few blocks from our apartment, and set fire to a building we could see out our window. Being from Bangladesh I'm not worrie…

I find your relaxed attitude quite perplexing. Only one moment of chance, madness, and anguish may have shattered your life. Shouldn't you be outraged at the fragility of your social order? I'm sorry, but you're American. I've read your insightful, articulate comments. You were educated here, you live here, and you contribute to this society. You should be indignant that your conception of your place in America is fr…

I'm not relaxed because I think it's someone else's problem. I'm unsurprised because I recognize through past experience that violent rioting is part of the human experience, always closer to the surface than we would hope. But thank you for the good wishes.

Re: Baltimore Residents Begin Clearing Debris After Night of Riots

#89

Post by somedangedname » Tue, Apr 28, 2015, 3:12 PM UTC

kisstheblade wrote: post #46

vinay427 wrote: post #2

"the police said some firefighters were reportedly having cinder blocks heaved at them as they responded to emergencies." That's pathetic.

Well in sweden (which is to supposed to be a peaceful nation) there are city districts where the police can't go because the "natives" try to kill them. Unsurprisingly these places are full of immigrants. You can pooh-pooh over how they have lousy conditions and are poor and riot because of that, but the fact is that they get everything they need from the state (food, shelter, spending money, schooling, healthcare),…

You are referring to the report about Malmö & co.? I'm having a hard time finding an english-language analysis which isn't frothing-at-the-mouth xenophobia. If you know of one I would very much like to read it.

Re: Baltimore Residents Begin Clearing Debris After Night of Riots

#90

Post by mc32 » Tue, Apr 28, 2015, 3:22 PM UTC

cafard wrote: post #86

madez wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do many countries with cold climate didn't have these issues while many countries with hot climate tend to do? Why do countries which didn't have unsafe streets now do after immigration?

Probably because there aren't enough people in Greenland to get a good riot going. Shakespeare wrote about riots in England--some of them, to be sure, targeted against Germans. Scotland has had its riots, Berlin has had some. I could mention the Boston Tea Party, but let's face it, those Yankees were immigrants.

The Yankees were colonizers more than immigrants --England had dominion over the territory and people came over to colonize as English subjects. In other words they were 'domestic' immigrants as opposed to alien (Swiss, Spanish, etc.) immigrants.