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Declassified Report Shows Doubts About Value of NSA’s Warrantless Spying

nytimes.com

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Re: Declassified Report Shows Doubts About Value of NSA’s Warrantless Spying

#41

Post by dreamfactory2 »

logicallee wrote: post #14
dreamfactory2 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If as it seems Snowden sucked it all up with wget and there was no audit trail, there can be no doubt that many others also have all this data - still comforting? The fact is that collecting all this info in the first place is diametrically opposed to security of individuals, companies, and the state. It will never be perfectly secure and digital storage and distribution means that one breach and it's all out there f…

Yes, you are right. Collecting all this info in the first place is diametrically opposed to the security of individuals, companies, and the state. It is like a nuclear power plant, with a reactive fission core that has to be very well-contained. And then the 'waste' has to be put away for 500 years. It's diametrically opposed to environmental safety. I completely agree with you that it needs to be incredibly tightly…

Two things completely contradict this romantically naive line of reasoning: 1) that they were caught using this capability to stalk their lovers (that's just the one we know of) 2) that the systems were not protected (Snowden being able to hoover it up using wget and no audit trail).

(The fact that that these toxic datastores would be created so thoughtlessly and kept so badly makes one wonder about 'the smartest people on the planet'. Though if you've ever worked for a government contractor, you'll know that technical standards are typically among the worst on the planet.)

Re: Declassified Report Shows Doubts About Value of NSA’s Warrantless Spying

#42

Post by [deleted] »

discardorama wrote: post #38
logicallee wrote: post #3

I had the exact opposite reaction to Snowden's revelations about the NSA that everyone else did. Prior to that, I had thought it is a ridiculous infringement on people's privacy. I thought it was terrible what the NSA was doing. I advocated heavily for anyone thinking about heading in that direction to rethink their life, and work on something constructive. Snowden revealed so much more data collection than anyone co…

> I support the NSA in siphoning off all the data, ... ... says the guy hiding behind a "stealth" startup.

[deleted]

Re: Declassified Report Shows Doubts About Value of NSA’s Warrantless Spying

#43

Post by logicallee »

jacquesm wrote: post #25
logicallee wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firstly, I didn't sanction it.* They have no right to do this and should vehemently deny it. Anything to the contrary is deeply illegal (by the supreme court of the land), and needs to be met with sanctions and repercussions, up to and including dismantling the NSA. Any level of transgression would make me take affirmative steps in this direction. * by the way I'd avoid using the verb 'sanction' ever as it means both…

It is illegal whether or not they acknowledge it. Much as you may dislike it you are - in my opinion - actively approving this by writing what you did above. Either that or I completely fail to understand your position.

yes, you've failed to understand my position.

Re: Declassified Report Shows Doubts About Value of NSA’s Warrantless Spying

#44

Post by logicallee »

discardorama wrote: post #38
logicallee wrote: post #3

I had the exact opposite reaction to Snowden's revelations about the NSA that everyone else did. Prior to that, I had thought it is a ridiculous infringement on people's privacy. I thought it was terrible what the NSA was doing. I advocated heavily for anyone thinking about heading in that direction to rethink their life, and work on something constructive. Snowden revealed so much more data collection than anyone co…

> I support the NSA in siphoning off all the data, ... ... says the guy hiding behind a "stealth" startup.

If there's a thought here you should complete it. Your comment as it reads now is an ad-hominem attack and should be downvoted.

Re: Declassified Report Shows Doubts About Value of NSA’s Warrantless Spying

#45

Post by seanmcdirmid »

icebraining wrote: post #33
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, and of course, the entire scale of it compared to very corrupt countries where police ask for bribes whenever they feel like it.

Doesn't sound so different: https://www.aclu.org/blog/easy-money-civil-asset-forfeiture-...

Until you actually have lived in one of those high corrupt countries, I don't think you'll be able to see the difference.

Re: Declassified Report Shows Doubts About Value of NSA’s Warrantless Spying

#46

Post by themartorana »

The worst thing that all of this spying and whatnot did is that every crazy conspiracy theory written in sibling posts...

...doesn't really seem all that crazy or outlandish at all, and I suspect much of the speculation is at least partially within the bounds of exactly what happened/is happening/will continue to happen.

Re: Declassified Report Shows Doubts About Value of NSA’s Warrantless Spying

#47

Post by jacquesm »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #45
icebraining wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't sound so different: https://www.aclu.org/blog/easy-money-civil-asset-forfeiture-...

Until you actually have lived in one of those high corrupt countries, I don't think you'll be able to see the difference.

I've lived in quite a few places with extremely high corruption and to be honest I don't know what I prefer, probably on the one hand it feels comfortable to have the corruption hidden behind a layer of veneer, on the other to have it out in the open at least allows you to discuss the problem with others without coming across as paranoid.

Re: Declassified Report Shows Doubts About Value of NSA’s Warrantless Spying

#48

Post by rhino369 »

kmonsen wrote: post #9

Does anyone seriously think the program is actually to stop terror? It is here to control the population in the country. Oh you want to run for president with ideas we don't like? It would be sad if someone publishes all this data we are sitting on.

This is a ridiculous conspiracy theory.

The better argument is that it could be used to blackmail people.

But right now there is zero the program is being used for those sort of nefarious purposes.

Re: Declassified Report Shows Doubts About Value of NSA’s Warrantless Spying

#49

Post by bsder »

maxerickson wrote: post #40
kmonsen wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is also a long history of doing this, just one example: https://www.google.com/search?q=fbi%20mlk Another (not so clear) example is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliot_Spitzer_prostitution_scan... He was called "Wall Streets worst nightmare", and suddenly he has to resign because he spent time with a prostitute.

Spitzer was also evading financial regulations. Or do you mean to imply that it was a fabricated hit job? Because to me it seems to be a real problem when a law enforcement official is giving himself special treatment.

> Or do you mean to imply that it was a fabricated hit job?

Suspected parallel construction. They used illegal collected records in order to find the dirt, and then dug it out using other means that were quasi-legal.

That having been said, an anti-prostitution crusader who is using prostitutes deserves exactly what he got. If he hadn't been a crusader, I would have been sympathetic.

It just like Republican congressmen. I really don't care how or with whom they're having sex, as long as they aren't crusading against what they, themselves, are doing.

Re: Declassified Report Shows Doubts About Value of NSA’s Warrantless Spying

#50

Post by discardorama »

logicallee wrote: post #44
discardorama wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I support the NSA in siphoning off all the data, ... ... says the guy hiding behind a "stealth" startup.

If there's a thought here you should complete it. Your comment as it reads now is an ad-hominem attack and should be downvoted.

You are proposing that the NSA invade everybody's privacy and collect all the private information. And yet you yourself refuse to disclose the name of your startup; what it does; who works there, etc. If you are going to be that cavalier about my private information, at least show us how by disclosing your private information.
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