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Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

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Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#131

Post by semi-extrinsic »

EliRivers wrote: post #65
kelukelugames wrote: post #62

1. Do not talk to anyone else in the company about this issue. Do not trust HR or legal. 2. Document everything. Write down the conversation you had with your boss word for word. Go do that right now. 3. Save proof of the violations. Save proof of you reporting it. Save your "excellent" job reports. It will be harder for them to justify firing an excellent employee. Realize that data loss prevention software will tel…

Do not trust HR or legal. Oh God yes. Everything they do, everything , is about protecting the company. They will lie to you, they will screw you over, and anything you say to them will be used against you in some way.

I'm a little surprised that everyone is saying "avoid HR" (I have no experience with being on the wrong side of management or HR, yet). Can anyone comment on whether this is US specific or if it applies equally in western Europe?

Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#132

Post by serve_yay »

hackuser wrote: post #105
fsk wrote: post #36

I've been unfairly fired several times, so my advice is: 1. Forget it, that job is over, it can't be salvaged. Knowing it's over, do the minimum work. 2. Start actively looking. Even if you don't find a new job within 30 days, you'll start getting interviews in your pipeline. 3. If it's so bad that it's making you sick (trouble sleeping, etc.), then just walk away now. Otherwise, there are advantages to saying on to…

> Knowing it's over, do the minimum work. I strongly disagree with this step. Ensure your performance is exceptional, flawless, and that everyone sees it. It's hard to do, hard to keep focus and not slip when everyone else is misbehaving, but it pays off: 1) It keeps your hands clean. Others won't know the inside story of why you were let go; if they see you slacking, they will doubt your character and work ethic and…

I think this puts too much emphasis on what people will think at the place that is about to fire your ass. If it's coming, vamping won't save you, and it probably doesn't matter much what those people think, in either direction.

Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#133

Post by HillRat »

pekk wrote: post #84
davismwfl wrote: post #74

1. Don't quit before/unless you have another position, let them fire you. 2. Getting fired will not blackball you, companies do not validate anything generally beyond dates of employment, salary and sometimes "eligible for rehire", but that has become more uncommon to ask/answer. I have seen at large firms even when a person is terminated for valid reasons, and the manager and executives have said they will never wor…

It's simply false that companies do not validate anything beyond dates of employment. Supposedly all companies are so terrified of lawsuits they won't do anything, but actually there is no mechanism which will allow the candidate to discover what was mentioned on the back channel, and the good old boy network is very much alive. If someone wants to make sure you don't get hired, there are ways. When it comes to your…

"Back channels" are exceptionally rare between HR departments -- I've only heard of one significant network of HR departments willing to back-channel pejorative data about possible employees, and that was a set of industrial companies that had an ongoing problem with employees getting fired for failed drug screens, then cleaning up just long enough to go to the next firm. (Meth heads playing with 2000°F furnaces is a legal and operational nightmare scenario.)

Even so, it took years for the companies to start sharing anything, and even then the HR heads would do things like meet in the parking lots of rural truck stops to exchange names of problem employees. Basically, sharing pejorative employee info between companies is something that no competent HR professional is willing to do absent very good reason, executive direction, and a lot of attempts at tradecraft.

Having said that, ref checks can communicate quite a lot without communicating anything in particular; pregnant pauses and careful word choice can certainly say a lot. However, this is more a concern in SMBs where the ref check might land on the manager's desk instead of HR.

Now, if a company leader wants to screw you over and you're looking for employment in the SMB market, then, yeah, change cities. YPO is a freaking henhouse for gossip, and bad reputations move fast in those circles.

Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#134

Post by carc »

def_illiterate wrote: post #124
hnnewguy wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "I know it sounds unpopular but this is the way people get promoted vs fired, kind of obvious, but many people still think that if "They do the right thing" that they are clear" We need more people to prioritize "doing the right thing" over "getting promoted", not fewer.

Some of us think the system can't be fixed--we just want ours. And that's okay.

Which is what perpetuates these types of things to continue to happen.

Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#135

Post by fsk »

serve_yay wrote: post #132
hackuser wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Knowing it's over, do the minimum work. I strongly disagree with this step. Ensure your performance is exceptional, flawless, and that everyone sees it. It's hard to do, hard to keep focus and not slip when everyone else is misbehaving, but it pays off: 1) It keeps your hands clean. Others won't know the inside story of why you were let go; if they see you slacking, they will doubt your character and work ethic and…

I think this puts too much emphasis on what people will think at the place that is about to fire your ass. If it's coming, vamping won't save you, and it probably doesn't matter much what those people think, in either direction.

I meant things like "don't put in unpaid overtime when you're about to be fired" and "when nobody is looking, scan job ads on your cell phone". You can still do a solid job, but don't be as aggressive as you would be if you planned to work there 2 more years.

For example, if you have a choice between doing a 5 minute patch or spending a couple hours refactoring it correctly, just do the 5 minute patch.

Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#136

Post by 6d0debc071 »

jqm wrote: post #87
eranation wrote: post #75

My tips. 1. never criticize your boss, your company or their practices, this is number one way to get fired. yes even if they are completely wrong. your sole job in your job is to make your boss look good. I know it sounds unpopular but this is the way people get promoted vs fired, kind of obvious, but many people still think that if "They do the right thing" that they are clear. This is not something HR will tell yo…

R.E. #1. Don't do this. The company pays you, not your boss. Therefore, you should have the companies best interest in mind, not the personal best interest of your boss. Ideally these two things are aligned. If they are not there is a problem. You can try to fix it (which entails a degree of personal risk, yes), or you can leave. But don't just stay quite. That is disloyalty to the entity which is paying you. If the…

> That is disloyalty to the entity which is paying you.

My employer is my client, no more, no less. I am employed to produce a set of work for them, and to employ my skills to particular ends as defined in the contract, and that's it. Their relationship with their other contractors is their business.

This idea that because someone pays you to do work you should serve their interests in all things - even to the extent of compromising your own - strikes me as quite perverse. They certainly bear no similar loyalty to you.

Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#137

Post by mavdi »

hnnewguy wrote: post #121
eranation wrote: post #75

My tips. 1. never criticize your boss, your company or their practices, this is number one way to get fired. yes even if they are completely wrong. your sole job in your job is to make your boss look good. I know it sounds unpopular but this is the way people get promoted vs fired, kind of obvious, but many people still think that if "They do the right thing" that they are clear. This is not something HR will tell yo…

> "I know it sounds unpopular but this is the way people get promoted vs fired, kind of obvious, but many people still think that if "They do the right thing" that they are clear" We need more people to prioritize "doing the right thing" over "getting promoted", not fewer.

Shame some of us are more concerned with providing a living for our families than winning an ideological war right?

Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#140

Post by mavdi »

Mate my two cents: move on. I see a lot of comments urging you to fight this tooth and nail but it really isn't worth it. It's a losing battle, the job is lost and whatever you do to try to win it back will not work unless some miracle happens. Save your energy for a new job, a better job working for people that value honesty and integrity.
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