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Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

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Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#121

Post by hnnewguy »

eranation wrote: post #75

My tips. 1. never criticize your boss, your company or their practices, this is number one way to get fired. yes even if they are completely wrong. your sole job in your job is to make your boss look good. I know it sounds unpopular but this is the way people get promoted vs fired, kind of obvious, but many people still think that if "They do the right thing" that they are clear. This is not something HR will tell yo…

>"I know it sounds unpopular but this is the way people get promoted vs fired, kind of obvious, but many people still think that if "They do the right thing" that they are clear"

We need more people to prioritize "doing the right thing" over "getting promoted", not fewer.

Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#122

Post by joshribakoff »

Whats more likely, that your boss "gets off" on wrongfully firing you, or that there's some attitude problem you don't recognize about yourself?

I'm going to say something that'll probably be unpopular & rude, but you want an honest answer. I don't know the full story, but from your own accounting of it - it does sound like you have a problematic attitude & the problem may be with you & not the company.

Your boss told you to follow someone's instructions & work under a person. Instead of helping, you went above that person's head & above your bosses head & consumed time auditing your superiors. You also called them an "expert" (backhanded compliment).

Personally I'd rather hire someone less skilled who follows instructions. If someone asks me what I think about a person's work, I'll be honest & say its not in compliance, but it sounds like you're going around actively telling on people for trivial stuff. They have a right to weed that type of attitude out, and you have a right to seek employment that values that type of attitude - so stop fooling yourself with this talk about "fair" & "not fair". If you're in an at-will work state there's no such thing as "unfair" termination. They don't want you anymore. Either make them want you (by being honest with yourself about what they disliked), or accept it & move on.

Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#123

Post by ErrantX »

AH4oFVbPT4f8 wrote: post #98
baldfat wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would counter. Don't get fired. If need be resign, but I would do everything I could to not be fired. Secondly I have thought that I was doing a good job but I was viewed negatively. I later found out that an ounce of criticism or attitude ruined my whole perspective. I had to learn that one comment or one person didn't decide who liked me. I just rolled with the punches and talked to managers and other non-related…

I don't agree with resigning. If you resign and are in the US, you give up the ability to file for unemployment. I would start cutting expenses and start looking for something new until that day comes.

Does the US allow "constructive dismissal" claims? In the UK, if you feel you are being worked out of a job the official advice is to quit, otherwise any claim of constructive dismissal becomes more complex.

Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#124

Post by def_illiterate »

hnnewguy wrote: post #121
eranation wrote: post #75

My tips. 1. never criticize your boss, your company or their practices, this is number one way to get fired. yes even if they are completely wrong. your sole job in your job is to make your boss look good. I know it sounds unpopular but this is the way people get promoted vs fired, kind of obvious, but many people still think that if "They do the right thing" that they are clear. This is not something HR will tell yo…

> "I know it sounds unpopular but this is the way people get promoted vs fired, kind of obvious, but many people still think that if "They do the right thing" that they are clear" We need more people to prioritize "doing the right thing" over "getting promoted", not fewer.

Some of us think the system can't be fixed--we just want ours. And that's okay.

Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#125

Post by cryptoglyph »

The most important task you need to accomplish in the next week is this: Consult with criminal defense counsel with experience in this area of federal compliance—particularly because of the possibility that the documents you were helping to create were contrary to law. 18 USC § 1001 is a frightening statute with exceptionally broad applicability. Even if it wasn't you signing the form, if you were helping to complete the form, an Assistant US Attorney might see you as a target for a conspiracy charge. Although conspiracy requires proof of intent, that doesn't mean your life can't be wrecked by a wayward or overly zealous AUSA, even if you are exonerated later.

You may need, under whatever area of law applies here, to whistleblow to remove any potential taint on your activity. Or maybe counsel would advise you to lay low. Hard to say. That's why it's important to talk to counsel in this area of law.

Secondly, you may have cause of action for a whistleblower lawsuit. You may end up deciding not to proceed for several reasons already mentioned in other comments (expensive, time consuming, etc.), but you should seek competent legal advice from an employment attorney as well.

Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#126

Post by s_q_b »

joshribakoff wrote: post #122

Whats more likely, that your boss "gets off" on wrongfully firing you, or that there's some attitude problem you don't recognize about yourself? I'm going to say something that'll probably be unpopular & rude, but you want an honest answer. I don't know the full story, but from your own accounting of it - it does sound like you have a problematic attitude & the problem may be with you & not the company. Your boss tol…

I've thought that through deeply, but the reality is that this isn't about fairness, this about a very specific set of actions. I didn't "go around telling on" anyone. I simply told my project manager that we couldn't use the document I was instructed to write for the purpose he was asking, because ethically I did not feel it would bring us into compliance with a mandated standard.

I am sure your intentions are good here, and certainly this a time to reflect, but I am not complaining about fairness of anything.

It's simply not ethical to put someone on review for raising an issue after months of careful consideration, especially given that my superior concurred with the judgment, and cut ties with the "expert" under whom we working. (I put "expert" in quotes not for snark, but because I want to be clear that this is the firm's terminology, not mine.)

I should also note that my colleague with whom I worked on the project, but is outside of my superior's chain of command, concurred with my concerns and stated so as well.

Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#127

Post by op00to »

pekk wrote: post #84
davismwfl wrote: post #74

1. Don't quit before/unless you have another position, let them fire you. 2. Getting fired will not blackball you, companies do not validate anything generally beyond dates of employment, salary and sometimes "eligible for rehire", but that has become more uncommon to ask/answer. I have seen at large firms even when a person is terminated for valid reasons, and the manager and executives have said they will never wor…

It's simply false that companies do not validate anything beyond dates of employment. Supposedly all companies are so terrified of lawsuits they won't do anything, but actually there is no mechanism which will allow the candidate to discover what was mentioned on the back channel, and the good old boy network is very much alive. If someone wants to make sure you don't get hired, there are ways. When it comes to your…

"[...] there is no mechanism which will allow the candidate to discover what was mentioned on the back channel [...]"

If there's a back channel for the reference, there's a back channel to find out about a shitty reference. I'm instructed by my HR team to never, ever give references, and to refer folks inquiring to our contracted company that gives only dates of employment. 'Cause we got better things to do than get sued, even if we'd likely win.

Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#128

Post by supertruth »

Okay it seems like you want to keep this job so that's step one. The goal here is to keep the job. Now just arrange the chess pieces to accomplish your goal. Here are two things I would keep in mind:

1. Do exceptionally good work for the next 30 days. Bust Your Ass. Most likely this is his way of reasserting his superior status over you since you went out of line. You need to show him that he's the master and you're the subordinate. The best way to do that is to bust your ass and do the work the way he's dictated that he wants the work done. Don't do this passive-aggressively or in a desperate way, do this with determination, with purpose, authentically. Like you were born and live to serve him. Once you've pleased his ego, he'll have a harder time rationalizing firing you.

2. DO NOT COMPLAIN TO HR/LEGAL. Only say good things about your boss and how's he's so intelligent and you really respect his leadership and blah blah. Swallow your pride and openly acknowledge his criticisms of you and say this whole process is helping you grow as a person and be better. Repeat: DO NOT COMPLAIN TO HR/LEGAL NO EXCEPTIONS IT DOES NOT MATTER IF YOU THINK THEY ARE YOUR FRIEND. If you have negative things to say about him/the company, they will begin their campaign to disarm you and support the decision to let you go.

On a meta-note. I think you should actually leave the company and find a company/manager with a supportive culture. By staying at this company you are stunting yourself. You seem too dependent and fearful and that is a recipe for life-long stress and anxiety, both of which will ultimately kill you. Improve your independence and self-reliance, find another job.

I've hired and fired many people and I can tell you that getting fired is not that bad. Companies know there are bad companies and that personalities don't always mix. What matters most to a potential future employer is not if you've been fired but if you can actually do good work and you fit in. If you do good work and there are companies where you can fit in, you don't need to fear being fired from anywhere. You'll find your place.

Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#130

Post by NicoJuicy »

Can you go over their heads? If you have any problems, there is almost always someone to raise issues to. If you love your jobs, your collegue appreciate you ( 3rd party references inside the company you can mention) and your previous peer reviews have always been positive, any boss can see there is something wrong...

I'd go over their heads, be bald. If it doesn't work, you have lost NOTHING... Don't threat the company, because then they will take it personal. Specify what is the problem and that you love working there.

Mention the raised issue about the legal problems to your boss. Say that you mentioned it as a good employee and only had negative or no feedback about it.

Other companies know that there can go something wrong, because there is always a "people" aspect in a company.. Don't worry about that.

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