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Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

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Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#81

Post by notahacker »

throwaway426 wrote: post #4

> Do I quit before the period expires? If you're fairly certain you'll be fired (and it sounds like you are) wouldn't this be the most sensible solution? When asked in interviews why you left saying you quit usually goes over a lot better than saying you were fired. And explaining why you quit would certainly not be considered a poor reason - at least not for the companies you would want to work for.

A short, honest answer would be best. "I raised concerns that they might be asking me to handle data/documents in a way that wasn't compliant with Federal law. Unfortunately I'm not able to elaborate on the details, but the result was that I felt moving on would be best"

Companies really shouldn't pry any further when there's good reason to believe you're legally obliged to shut up. Plus refraining from the opportunity to rant about their dubious practises and coverups also implies that you're a sensible professional with high standards rather than a troublemaker.

The possibility that your most-likely-soon-to-be-ex-employer might feel compelled to offer you some kind of settlement in return for you agreeing not to mention alleged non-compliance or unfair dismissal to anybody else actually probably still exists. But you ask your counsel (or two or three different lawyers) about that, not HN.

Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#82

Post by pekk »

zerr wrote: post #43

>blackballed from most firms in this city Why? Do you have some kind of Public Hall of Shame where you put those who have been fired? Or do you live in some small village where everyone knows everyone and everything? Really interesting.

"References required"

Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#83

Post by pekk »

pknerd wrote: post #63

In my last job I had faced similar situation. The HOD wanted to get rid of me to colleagues and higher-ups. Unlike you I did not hesitate termination. Once my dues were clear I wrote an email to entire department, HOD, HRM and CEO and shared everything. The end result, I felt satisfied and some other pals saved themselves by quitting themselves. Moral of the story: Be Courageous. If you are skilled you will get a job…

"If you are skilled you will get a job" implies that the only people who aren't getting jobs are unskilled, and that is very much false.

Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#84

Post by pekk »

davismwfl wrote: post #74

1. Don't quit before/unless you have another position, let them fire you. 2. Getting fired will not blackball you, companies do not validate anything generally beyond dates of employment, salary and sometimes "eligible for rehire", but that has become more uncommon to ask/answer. I have seen at large firms even when a person is terminated for valid reasons, and the manager and executives have said they will never wor…

It's simply false that companies do not validate anything beyond dates of employment. Supposedly all companies are so terrified of lawsuits they won't do anything, but actually there is no mechanism which will allow the candidate to discover what was mentioned on the back channel, and the good old boy network is very much alive. If someone wants to make sure you don't get hired, there are ways.

When it comes to your own life, please don't trust this Pollyanna advice from HN which is coming from people who have not had any problems like this.

Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#85

Post by davemel37 »

eranation wrote: post #75

My tips. 1. never criticize your boss, your company or their practices, this is number one way to get fired. yes even if they are completely wrong. your sole job in your job is to make your boss look good. I know it sounds unpopular but this is the way people get promoted vs fired, kind of obvious, but many people still think that if "They do the right thing" that they are clear. This is not something HR will tell yo…

This. I am no psychologist, but from your post it sounds like you are wound somewhat tight and worry about everything. Not to worry, here are some things to consider.

Losing your job might be the best thing to ever happen to you. What do I mean? Well, for someone who worries a ton, going through a struggle and coming out the other side unscathed will help you worry less and take more risks in the future...which will open you up to new opportunities.

There is a reason many successful people have gone through bankruptcies...It's because they learned the hard way that losing everything financially is not a death sentence...and they come back without fear... Fear is a killer to success. Now's your chance to conquer fear!

Here is a partial list of famous successful people who went through a bankruptcy before succeeding...(From Dan Kennedy's Book, "Wealth Attraction For Entrepreneuers"

P.T. Barnum, David Buick, Walt Disney, James Folger, Henry Ford, Conrad Hilton, J.C. Penny, Sam Walton, William Fox, H.J. Heinz, and Frank Lloyd Wright....

As Pink Says, " Where there is a flame, Someone's bound to get burned. But just because it burns, Doesn't mean you're gonna die. You've gotta get up and try"

Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#86

Post by fredkbloggs »

pekk wrote: post #82
zerr wrote: post #43

>blackballed from most firms in this city Why? Do you have some kind of Public Hall of Shame where you put those who have been fired? Or do you live in some small village where everyone knows everyone and everything? Really interesting.

"References required"

Anyone who's ever worked with you can be a reference. It's normal to choose someone other than your immediate superior as a reference, especially if you're interviewing elsewhere while still employed there. Anyone who insists specifically on speaking to your previous (or current!) supervisor is nuts. Never had that happen at any time in my long career.

Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#87

Post by jqm »

eranation wrote: post #75

My tips. 1. never criticize your boss, your company or their practices, this is number one way to get fired. yes even if they are completely wrong. your sole job in your job is to make your boss look good. I know it sounds unpopular but this is the way people get promoted vs fired, kind of obvious, but many people still think that if "They do the right thing" that they are clear. This is not something HR will tell yo…

R.E. #1. Don't do this.

The company pays you, not your boss. Therefore, you should have the companies best interest in mind, not the personal best interest of your boss. Ideally these two things are aligned. If they are not there is a problem. You can try to fix it (which entails a degree of personal risk, yes), or you can leave. But don't just stay quite. That is disloyalty to the entity which is paying you.

If the company is doing something illegal or strikingly unethical and it is not an oversight and you don't believe change is possible, leave. Otherwise you are complicit and this speaks badly of your character which is worth more than a job.

This is not to say every little issue is worth a battle... nobody and no organization is perfect. Don't be a complainer or a nitpicker. However, if there are major problems don't just go with it. That's how organizations go downhill. People afraid to stand up and take personal risks for the good of the institution. Either try to get it worked out or else walk out. Either way, don't be an enabler.

R.E last paragraph: Exactly!

Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#88

Post by alexqgb »

zerr wrote: post #43

>blackballed from most firms in this city Why? Do you have some kind of Public Hall of Shame where you put those who have been fired? Or do you live in some small village where everyone knows everyone and everything? Really interesting.

The problem is that while prospective employers can't ask your companies HR dept. to verify anything beyond the most basic facts of your tenure, they can make note of whether your direct manager is included in your list of references.

The fear (perhaps unjustified) is that any signal indicating a less-than-amicible seperation will be treated as a red flag by potential employers, who would prefer to give the position to someone who is either recruited for that spot in particular, or is trading up cleanly.

This is less of an issue for people with a specific and clearly demonstrable skill set that's in high demand, but to the extent that finding a new position demands some growth on your part (i.e. an employer willing to place some faith in having you develop on their dime) this can add to the potentially crippling sense of self-doubt and insecurity that a situation like the OP described will engender.

There's a school of thought that says your optimal career moves should be based on you getting yourself into places you want to be, not running from places you don't want to be. If you know this, and you're in a situation like this, you already feel you're having to make the most of a bad hand, and that where ever you go next may end up being a severe compromise you have to live with for some time.

Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#89

Post by FireBeyond »

notahacker wrote: post #81
throwaway426 wrote: post #4

> Do I quit before the period expires? If you're fairly certain you'll be fired (and it sounds like you are) wouldn't this be the most sensible solution? When asked in interviews why you left saying you quit usually goes over a lot better than saying you were fired. And explaining why you quit would certainly not be considered a poor reason - at least not for the companies you would want to work for.

A short, honest answer would be best. "I raised concerns that they might be asking me to handle data/documents in a way that wasn't compliant with Federal law. Unfortunately I'm not able to elaborate on the details, but the result was that I felt moving on would be best" Companies really shouldn't pry any further when there's good reason to believe you're legally obliged to shut up. Plus refraining from the opportuni…

This is a good answer if directly asked. It doesn't imply guilt on either party, and as you said, this really isn't something that should be discussed further.

Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#90

Post by jqm »

steven2012 wrote: post #50

I've been in this same situation as you. You can and will not win against your boss. You can either try to transfer into another group outside of the reach of your current boss, or you need to leave. But the fact you are on performance review means that transferring might be very hard, unless you've made good relationships with other groups that would take you on. Those are your only two options so act quickly. There…

"You can and will not win against your boss."

That is certainly not necessarily true. But it is a probably.

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