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Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

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Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#41

Post by antidaily »

codegeek wrote: post #5

Let me say this very clearly. If your manager has decided to get rid of you, you cannot fight that battle. Do not fight that battle. You will lose. Doesn't matter who is right or wrong. I have seen this so many times in my 11 years of professional experience that I will say this with conviction. Now, if you are really sure that your manager is preparing to fire you, then : "Do I simply begin looking for other positio…

I dunno. Maybe the job is worth fighting for. And it definitely wouldn't be the first time someone went over their superior's head and won. Or got transferred to another division.

Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#42

Post by nezumi »

skylan_q wrote: post #13
evbots wrote: post #3

Whatever you decide to do, you really should report the violation of the law in some way to one of your superiors, and do it in a documented, traceable fashion (email).

Pretty much this. And if they don't follow through/follow up on this, the problem will get much bigger.

If I were in this position I would find the appropriate internal legal counsel and cc them on the email, including the words 'client attorney privileged and confidential' at the top. This affords some protection against discovery were the information to become relevant in legal proceedings. Taking that additional caution on behalf of the company shows professionalism on your part and will be appreciated by management who will see you're trying to contain and redress the situation rather than put the company at risk, in which case you may be seen instead as the risk.

Another thought- it's possible that your supervisor's manager is aware of the action being taken against you. You might be able to get better advice talking to someone in a different reporting chain if you can find them.

Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#44

Post by s_q_b »

rfrey wrote: post #38
s_q_b wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks guys :) There are verbatim notes that I've filed with my legal counsel, but I am concerned escalating will result in immediate termination.

You have legal counsel and you're still posting to HN for advice? Have you lost faith in them? Do they know you're posting details of your case on the internet? Are they ok with that?

I have not lost faith, and nothing I've said is legally problematic. Truly, I value the advice given here, and having weighed the risks carefully, I made a considered decision. It could be totally wrong, but for now, what's done is done. Thank you for reading this, and your advice is very well taken.

Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#46

Post by mdesq »

cryodesign wrote: post #31

I'd get advice from an employment lawyer right away, sounds quite dicey your situation, I'm sure your manager had to fill out a bunch of forms and give specific reasons to put you on a 30 day review. Can you find out what those reasons were? Questioning the work of an 'expert' (was that person a contractor?) surely can't be an official reason to put you on review. Also get your previous performance reports, that will…

This is absolutely essential advice. Consult with a good employment lawyer as soon as possible. They will know the legal issues at play and can counsel you on what steps to take / not take. Unfortunately, it sounds like you may be in a situation where a single misstep could be used against you. You need an understanding of what your rights are, and what your protections may be under the law. A good employment lawyer will be able to help with that.

In the meantime, I would begin a journal and start taking notes (with dates/times) on what you have been told, observations you have made, etc. This may be helpful both to the lawyer as well as anyone else when you are asked to recall things. This way, it's contemporaneous note-taking as your reference, and not some attempted recollection from some time considered long past.

Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#47

Post by yason »

Before proceeding with the steps to ensure your personal future, spend some time thinking why it's you who's involved in this? Why are you put in such a situation, possibly in the role of a whistleblower? Is there something greater that is screaming to be done regardless of how you will personally survive? Don't literally think but take some time to listen to something inside of you. Maybe there's a call for you.

If you're sure there isn't, the next step is to go practical.

Stop thinking you will not get a future if you get fired. The future is not set. There's very little, if anything, a manager or even a company can do to prevent you from getting another job in the same city. Getting fired because of not agreeing to unlawful practices trumps bad-mouthing any day.

Make a local copy of the evidence and store it safe. If someone wants to play hardball you don't want your position to rely on your word or anyone else's. I'm not a US citizen but if there's something done not according to the Federal law I could imagine some Federal authority might be very interested in it.

Start looking for a position elsewhere. Consider your job done: don't look back. You can do that later when you're safe in another job but now is not the time. You can take a "lesser job" because you can explain it away as being fired because of not tolerating unlawful practices. At least you have your feet on solid ground again.

Then escalate the matter to your manager's boss or his boss. There should be someone in the company (or someone who's invested in the company) who's interested in unlawful compliance documents. If there isn't, run fast and don't look back.

If the compliance matter reaches parties outside the company and nobody in the company wants to do anything about it, go talk to the police if non-compliance could cause harm to other people. If the matter is company internal, leave it there: the company will eventually sink with all their baggage if they tolerate such practices.

Once you've made a plan to survival, cherish the opportunity. What would you have wanted to do if only things hadn't been so good as for your employer earlier in time? What could you try now that you're off the hook anyway and have no reason to hold back to something? What are the things are have been impossible but could now be chosen?

Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#48

Post by Jailbird »

codegeek wrote: post #32
saboot wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you do need a reference, you can always use other colleagues and not necessarily your manager. Is it okay to do this while still being employed at a company? Would you consult the colleague and ask him to not reveal you are looking for a new job? This isn't for OP, but my own knowledge.

you are right. I edited my comment further on this. No one uses/should use their current colleagues/company/boss for reference anyway.

Really? In my experience, across (software/tech) in multiple industries - people (work friends, and work friends who you keep as real friends) help each other out if they're leaving (again, assuming we think well of each other and the references are honest) We don't assume interviewing equal disloyalty. A fair bit of caution is required, of course - but I see this happen all the time. Heck, I've had executives who will help you if want to leave (again - it's not disloyal), and I've carried that same approach to those who reported to me.

Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#49

Post by chdir »

Unfortunately in such situations there's little you can do legally unless you have a good trail. Regarding reporting up, do read some of the advice here as to whose side HR would take : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8600716

Since the damage has already been done (putting you on a performance review), the rest is just a matter of time. By damage, I don't mean any damage to your reputation outside the company though. It's better to start job hunting while you weigh your options about a legal case or talking to higher-ups. In most of the cases I've seen, it's easier & cheaper to just walk away. However, if you are very confident that someone higher-up would be genuinely interested in knowing the truth, then you should get in touch with them. Whatever you decide, start searching for jobs.

Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#50

Post by steven2012 »

I've been in this same situation as you.

You can and will not win against your boss.

You can either try to transfer into another group outside of the reach of your current boss, or you need to leave. But the fact you are on performance review means that transferring might be very hard, unless you've made good relationships with other groups that would take you on.

Those are your only two options so act quickly. There is no way so salvage the situation. 30-day performance reviews are really just a way to fire you but to avoid a lawsuit.

I find it hard to believe you will be blackballed in the entire city unless you work in a very small city. But you have no choice. And next job you get, you should consider the things you say and who you are saying them to. Some people take criticism well, and others like your boss will try to fire you. Learn from this experience.

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