Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#31

Post by cryodesign » Sun, Apr 26, 2015, 4:36 PM UTC

I'd get advice from an employment lawyer right away, sounds quite dicey your situation, I'm sure your manager had to fill out a bunch of forms and give specific reasons to put you on a 30 day review. Can you find out what those reasons were? Questioning the work of an 'expert' (was that person a contractor?) surely can't be an official reason to put you on review.

Also get your previous performance reports, that will hopefully show that whatever reasons he put down for placing you under 30 day review are out of character and unusual.

Edit: typos

Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#32

Post by codegeek » Sun, Apr 26, 2015, 4:38 PM UTC

saboot wrote: post #28

codegeek wrote: post #5

Let me say this very clearly. If your manager has decided to get rid of you, you cannot fight that battle. Do not fight that battle. You will lose. Doesn't matter who is right or wrong. I have seen this so many times in my 11 years of professional experience that I will say this with conviction. Now, if you are really sure that your manager is preparing to fire you, then : "Do I simply begin looking for other positio…

> if you do need a reference, you can always use other colleagues and not necessarily your manager. Is it okay to do this while still being employed at a company? Would you consult the colleague and ask him to not reveal you are looking for a new job? This isn't for OP, but my own knowledge.

you are right. I edited my comment further on this. No one uses/should use their current colleagues/company/boss for reference anyway.

Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#33

Post by bdcravens » Sun, Apr 26, 2015, 4:38 PM UTC

> I have no desire to lose my job, but I am most concerned that being fired would place future job prospects in jeopardy.

First of all, you're not going to work here forever. You'll let laid off, or get pushed out in an acquisition, or find a better gig down the road, or get fired for cause. No one stays at a job forever.

Secondly, don't place so much faith in your "permanent record". Yeah, getting fired can impact you, but not as significantly as you think. I've had some jobs I seriously screwed up on, but I'm far from the soup kitchen today. Even if someone notices, there are laws regarding disclosure, and you will get interviews. In today's world of high profile ethical failures, your response to why you were terminated will make you stand out.

People around the world are dying for their beliefs. Don't stand for having imaginary potential consequences dangled in front of you like a carrot prevent you from doing the proper thing.

Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#34

Post by s_q_b » Sun, Apr 26, 2015, 4:40 PM UTC

heldtogether wrote: post #10

It sounds very much like you're a whistleblower of some crime, which gives you protection against the sort of retaliation you're describing. See http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whistleblower for more information about legal protection. Now, you're not immune to workforce politics so there may still be reasons why you'd be fired but I definitely wouldn't accept it without finding out a lot more about your situation and…

According to my counsel, whistleblower protection laws wouldn't necessarily apply in this case (IANAL, so I'm unsure as to why.)

Also, this industry does not treat whistleblowers well, so I'm hesitant to take this route, yet. But I want to make sure I follow firm policy very precisely regarding these issues, so I'm consulting closely with legal counsel.

Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#35

Post by pkaye » Sun, Apr 26, 2015, 4:40 PM UTC

Main thing is make sure you have collaborating evidence against your manager. Like good past reviews and coworkers who would support you. HR loyalty lies up the management chain so normally it is an up hill battle. But if you are a good performer and have others who support you, HR can be turned around.

Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#36

Post by fsk » Sun, Apr 26, 2015, 4:40 PM UTC

I've been unfairly fired several times, so my advice is:

1. Forget it, that job is over, it can't be salvaged. Knowing it's over, do the minimum work.

2. Start actively looking. Even if you don't find a new job within 30 days, you'll start getting interviews in your pipeline.

3. If it's so bad that it's making you sick (trouble sleeping, etc.), then just walk away now. Otherwise, there are advantages to saying on to the end. They might offer you some salary as severance. You might be eligible for unemployment. Even if they do fire you, for legal reasons, they'll probably word it as a layoff rather than a firing for cause.

4. I'd advise against a whisteblower lawsuit. It's a lot of stress with no guarantee of winning.

5. Don't be sure that you'll be blackballed. There's always another job.

Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#37

Post by jodah » Sun, Apr 26, 2015, 4:40 PM UTC

xtrumanx wrote: post #12

socialist_coder wrote: post #8

> He assigned me to follow the instructions of an "expert" in completing a compliance document (a task in which I am not trained), and the "expert" turned out to be producing documents that are not in compliance with Federal law. The "expert" repeatedly stated in writing that I was doing an "excellent" job, and I am concerned I am facing retaliation for reporting that her work was simply not correct. If that is true,…

> I'm sure upper management would be interested in the truth. I'm not the OP and I'm sure upper management everywhere are interested in the truth but I'm interested in maintaining the relationship with my direct superiors more. If my direct superiors aren't handling an issue I will never go over their head as it'll probably sour our relationship and nothing will probably get done anyways.

Agree with others - any relationship with your immediate superiors is already toast. Anyone who would retaliate against you for doing good work can never be trusted to treat you fairly again.

Considering that you want to stay at the company there are really only two ways this could turn out good for you: You bring this up the chain, effectively reporting your supervisor's bad behavior, and wind up reassigned under someone else, or you bring this up the chain and your supervisor gets fired. The latter is the only scenario that really gives you a good shot of remaining at the company without being hassled, and it sounds like your supervisor's behavior was bad enough to warrant their dismissal.

Some people do horrible things and their companies protect them. Maybe they're politically connected, well-liked, or valuable for other reasons. The way I look at this overall is that the company is either good enough to stop this sort of retaliatory behavior or they're not, in which case you shouldn't want to work for them anyways.

Good luck.

Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#38

Post by rfrey » Sun, Apr 26, 2015, 4:41 PM UTC

s_q_b wrote: post #21

skylan_q wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much this. And if they don't follow through/follow up on this, the problem will get much bigger.

Thanks guys :) There are verbatim notes that I've filed with my legal counsel, but I am concerned escalating will result in immediate termination.

You have legal counsel and you're still posting to HN for advice? Have you lost faith in them? Do they know you're posting details of your case on the internet? Are they ok with that?

Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#39

Post by lightlyused » Sun, Apr 26, 2015, 4:41 PM UTC

"When I raised that issue, he immediately began the process of putting me on a 30 day review, a necessary step prior to termination."

Document document document. Don't quit your job and when and if they do fire you. Sue. It sounds to me like your manger is retaliating against you because they are trying to cover something up. That is never ok and if HR is not handling it, than stand your ground and let the lawyers handle it.

Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#40

Post by Jailbird » Sun, Apr 26, 2015, 4:41 PM UTC

saboot wrote: post #28

codegeek wrote: post #5

Let me say this very clearly. If your manager has decided to get rid of you, you cannot fight that battle. Do not fight that battle. You will lose. Doesn't matter who is right or wrong. I have seen this so many times in my 11 years of professional experience that I will say this with conviction. Now, if you are really sure that your manager is preparing to fire you, then : "Do I simply begin looking for other positio…

> if you do need a reference, you can always use other colleagues and not necessarily your manager. Is it okay to do this while still being employed at a company? Would you consult the colleague and ask him to not reveal you are looking for a new job? This isn't for OP, but my own knowledge.

This may seem obvious - but yes, consult others before using them as a reference. At a minimum, you'll want to know they're happy to give you a good reference. One would hope you've developed a strong enough relationship with some colleagues as humans (i.e. beyond the confines of the "employee" relationship.) Humans don't always stay at one company forever.

Trust comes first - the rest follows rather easily.