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The Slow Death of the University

chronicle.com

81–90 of 134 posts

Re: The Slow Death of the University

#81
Those South Koreans were probably carrying brand new Samsung phones under their jacket. Just as potent as a pair of Kalashnikovs, which their Northern brethren prefer ;)

In certain parts of the English-speaking world, universities are not dying, they're actually flourishing... but only because of a major influx of Chinese and Korean students willing to pay those exhorbitant out-of-state fees.

And since most of those valuable foreign customers want to study business, finance, medicine, law, and a handful of STEM fields, universities have no choice but to cater to their demands. Some programs in the West Coast are half Chinese by now. Those kids probably pay 80% of the gross fees, too. On the other hand, when I took English or philosophy, I was often the only Asian in the class.

But China is growing very fast (slower than before, but still fast), and Korea has all but done catching up with the rest of the developed world. Other countries might then supplant China as the largest supplier of international students, but they'll grow up, too. Sooner or later, all the international students who are propping up American universities will decide that they'd much rather spend their dollars elsewhere. When that last bubble bursts, even STEM fields will not be immune from a massive shock, and heavily subsidized humanities departments will be in real trouble this time.

Re: The Slow Death of the University

#82
post #79

"It would also seek to restore the honorable lineage of the university as one of the few arenas in modern society (another is the arts) in which prevailing ideologies can be submitted to some rigorous scrutiny." Then the battle is lost, because universities, at least in the USA, are the home of "free speech areas" and not letting people speak who a group disagrees with. When people are talking about "safe areas" to p…

> When people are talking about "safe areas" to protect students from words spoken by a speaker, then criticism is dead. I understand what you're getting at, but some people really do have PTSD, and some speeches really do contain things like graphic recountings of abuse. Should those people just not attend university? (I'm actually undecided.)

When specifically did you gain the right to not be offended? As far as I'm aware, nobody has any such right.

If you don't like what someone is saying, walk away.

Re: The Slow Death of the University

#83
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When people are talking about "safe areas" to protect students from words spoken by a speaker, then criticism is dead. I understand what you're getting at, but some people really do have PTSD, and some speeches really do contain things like graphic recountings of abuse. Should those people just not attend university? (I'm actually undecided.)

When specifically did you gain the right to not be offended? As far as I'm aware, nobody has any such right. If you don't like what someone is saying, walk away.

> When specifically did you gain the right to not be offended

That's an unbelievably dismissive view. What makes you think these areas are merely about exclusion from offense?

Re: The Slow Death of the University

#84
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When people are talking about "safe areas" to protect students from words spoken by a speaker, then criticism is dead. I understand what you're getting at, but some people really do have PTSD, and some speeches really do contain things like graphic recountings of abuse. Should those people just not attend university? (I'm actually undecided.)

When specifically did you gain the right to not be offended? As far as I'm aware, nobody has any such right. If you don't like what someone is saying, walk away.

[deleted]

Re: The Slow Death of the University

#86
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When people are talking about "safe areas" to protect students from words spoken by a speaker, then criticism is dead. I understand what you're getting at, but some people really do have PTSD, and some speeches really do contain things like graphic recountings of abuse. Should those people just not attend university? (I'm actually undecided.)

When specifically did you gain the right to not be offended? As far as I'm aware, nobody has any such right. If you don't like what someone is saying, walk away.

Not being offended, and not entering a dissociative fugue state and shaking and screaming and muttering for 30 minutes and quite disrupting the speech in the process, are very different things.

PTSD is not Tumblr-fairy disease; it's the thing you get from being interned in a POW camp or locked in someone's sex dungeon for months/years. People do have a right to avoid reliving that sort of experience.

Which, like I said, might mean that they'd have to avoid going to university altogether. It's probably nearly impossible to have an environment that both allows for a free-flowing exchange of ideas, and yet protects people with this sort of permanent mental disability.

But making an allowance for rape survivors to leave the room when there's going to be a live screening of Salò isn't all that hard, is it?

Re: The Slow Death of the University

#87
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When specifically did you gain the right to not be offended? As far as I'm aware, nobody has any such right. If you don't like what someone is saying, walk away.

Not being offended , and not entering a dissociative fugue state and shaking and screaming and muttering for 30 minutes and quite disrupting the speech in the process, are very different things. PTSD is not Tumblr-fairy disease; it's the thing you get from being interned in a POW camp or locked in someone's sex dungeon for months/years. People do have a right to avoid reliving that sort of experience. Which, like I s…

Yes, they are very different things, which is why you are arguing against a strawman. You know perfectly well that letting someone voice his conservative political opinions is not going to trigger PTSD. Pretending to be offended in order to stop the debate is the left's version of invoking terrorism in ridiculous contexts.

The biggest irony, which you probably can't even see, is that your own comment is an example of the disturbing and vile speech you claim to hate ("sex dungeon", "POW camp", "Salo"). You didn't need to bring those up to make your point, but you did. Somehow disturbing and vile things like burning the flag and condoning drug abuse never seem to upset the left (and I could go on...), but talking about individual rights and respnsibilities does. Funny how that works.

Re: The Slow Death of the University

#88
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When specifically did you gain the right to not be offended? As far as I'm aware, nobody has any such right. If you don't like what someone is saying, walk away.

Not being offended , and not entering a dissociative fugue state and shaking and screaming and muttering for 30 minutes and quite disrupting the speech in the process, are very different things. PTSD is not Tumblr-fairy disease; it's the thing you get from being interned in a POW camp or locked in someone's sex dungeon for months/years. People do have a right to avoid reliving that sort of experience. Which, like I s…

If you cannot function in an environment without damaging yourself, then you need to deal with that first. If making accommodations for you is used to censor or affect the free speech of others then you are now the oppressor even if it not intentional on your part. Letting people use your condition to condemn or exile others is beyond wrong.

I once worked inside a social program and the first lesson is to heal. Painfully, that often means scar tissue. If you have trama from words, you need to deal with it, not hope the world will.

Re: The Slow Death of the University

#89
post #14
post #3

This is only mildly related to the article, but does anyone else have difficulty imagining what others' jobs are? For example, I'm just young enough to remember a time when I thought a programmer was someone who hid in a closet to slam at a keyboard for nine hours a day, but that notion was only corrected by entering the workforce. What about my other misconceptions? There's no way to learn about all of them firsthan…

"Working" by Studs Terkel comes to mind. http://www.amazon.com/Working-People-Talk-About-What/dp/1565... So many people have this question early in their careers, it really seems like something is wrong. Perhaps we need a serious/mandatory/formal job-shadowing program for teens and college students.

Like apprenticeships? Man, what an outdated idea. They did that in the Dark Ages, for goodness sake! /s

We have a strong push towards internships, it seems odd that students aren't taking advantage of this hands-on experience in a field that interests them. Of course, missing out on a paid job for the (most likely unpaid) internship is probably a factor.

Re: The Slow Death of the University

#90

"It would also seek to restore the honorable lineage of the university as one of the few arenas in modern society (another is the arts) in which prevailing ideologies can be submitted to some rigorous scrutiny." Then the battle is lost, because universities, at least in the USA, are the home of "free speech areas" and not letting people speak who a group disagrees with. When people are talking about "safe areas" to p…

Then the battle is lost, because universities, at least in the USA, are the home of "free speech areas" and not letting people speak who a group disagrees with. STEM is often criticized as unwelcoming, but humanities has become a place of "agree with me" or be condemned. It is a mistake to assume that this is a localized phenomenon limited to the United States. Lately - and as somewhat of a testament to how disturbin…

Thanks for the links. I did not want to state beyond the U.S. because I have not done the research myself on this subject.
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