Why Americans Are Going Abroad • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Americans Are Going Abroad

#51

Post by Luc » Thu, Apr 23, 2015, 10:19 AM UTC

technomancy wrote: post #22

davidw wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can vote in the state you last resided in or even the place you feel is 'home' in the US. I still participate in Oregon elections, for example. http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/abroad/leg... I don't know the details for people who have never lived in the US, but they are entitled to vote, being citizens. Being forced to pay taxes is an unwelcome burden with few benefits, but you can vote if you l…

Parent's point is that your Oregonian congressman is not looking out for your interests but those of his resident-constituents. If emigrants comprise a population roughly equivalent to Maryland, why don't they get their own representation?

Some countries reserve parliament seats for representatives of citizens abroad: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overseas_constituency

Re: Why Americans Are Going Abroad

#52

Post by dataker » Thu, Apr 23, 2015, 10:19 AM UTC

IkmoIkmo wrote: post #37

dataker wrote: post #14

> Italy makes it remarkably easy for descendants of Italian emigrants to claim citizenship, for example Hm... No. It took me 4 years to obtain my Italian citizenship(from my mother). We almost had a court battle for them to accept a missing letter(literally).

Friend of my dad's moved to Italy, learned to speak the language fluently and spent every day of his 20 years or so there working hard and being an upstanding citizen. He started a family there, but because he missed some paperwork early on, his kids never became Italians and neither did he or his wife. So yeah his kids were born in Italy, all grew up in Italy, speak Italian fluently (natively), went to school there…

For my own experience, it helps if you are physically 'applying' and, even so, trying regions that are 'more efficient'.

I'd given up on foreign consulates and southern Italian comunes before finally getting it.

Re: Why Americans Are Going Abroad

#53

Post by ldng » Thu, Apr 23, 2015, 10:21 AM UTC

technomancy wrote: post #22

davidw wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can vote in the state you last resided in or even the place you feel is 'home' in the US. I still participate in Oregon elections, for example. http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/abroad/leg... I don't know the details for people who have never lived in the US, but they are entitled to vote, being citizens. Being forced to pay taxes is an unwelcome burden with few benefits, but you can vote if you l…

Parent's point is that your Oregonian congressman is not looking out for your interests but those of his resident-constituents. If emigrants comprise a population roughly equivalent to Maryland, why don't they get their own representation?

In France we have I think 10 or 12 seats in the House and roughly the same in the Senate representing 5 regions of the world. You register and vote in your embassy or consulate. So expats do have representative looking for them and their specific needs. And it seems fair to me. And as far as I know, expats don't pay french taxes. So clearly a pretty different focus on that matter.

Re: Why Americans Are Going Abroad

#54

Post by dataker » Thu, Apr 23, 2015, 10:21 AM UTC

atmosx wrote: post #47

dataker wrote: post #14

> Italy makes it remarkably easy for descendants of Italian emigrants to claim citizenship, for example Hm... No. It took me 4 years to obtain my Italian citizenship(from my mother). We almost had a court battle for them to accept a missing letter(literally).

Weird, where you from? I got both (Greek and Italian) citizenships the moment I was born (my mother is from Sicily) and I was born (and currently live) in Greece.

Reside in the U.S and was born in Chile, so it's probably a bit harder if one is outside the EU

Re: Why Americans Are Going Abroad

#55

Post by yodsanklai » Thu, Apr 23, 2015, 10:27 AM UTC

Fuxy wrote: post #32

bruceb wrote: post #15

Immigration is complex but what I hate is the BS and half lies that are told like this author does. "We debate immigration and border controls for Mexico ad nauseum, yet, on the whole, the typical immigrant isn’t Mexican." Like many newspapers the author is trying to blur the line between legal and illegal immigrant. The reason we are talking about border controls is because yes most come from Mexico. The typical per…

You seem to be putting the US on too high of a pedestal. Reality is the US is not all that and you can get most if not all the opportunities you're talking about somewhere else maybe even better healthcare and unemployment benefits without having to pay tax to a country you're not even using the public services of. I have multiple citizenship and I would find it unacceptable if any of the countries demanded more then…

> Having to pay to renew you passport or processing other paperwork is acceptable paying tax to a country you don't live in isn't.

One could argue that growing up in the US gave you a lot of benefits (infrastructure, education, healthcare, security and so on...), and that paying tax (even if not living there anymore) is a reasonable price for this.

Re: Why Americans Are Going Abroad

#56

Post by Fuxy » Thu, Apr 23, 2015, 10:33 AM UTC

yodsanklai wrote: post #55

Fuxy wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be putting the US on too high of a pedestal. Reality is the US is not all that and you can get most if not all the opportunities you're talking about somewhere else maybe even better healthcare and unemployment benefits without having to pay tax to a country you're not even using the public services of. I have multiple citizenship and I would find it unacceptable if any of the countries demanded more then…

> Having to pay to renew you passport or processing other paperwork is acceptable paying tax to a country you don't live in isn't. One could argue that growing up in the US gave you a lot of benefits (infrastructure, education, healthcare, security and so on...), and that paying tax (even if not living there anymore) is a reasonable price for this.

One can argue that growing up in any European country gave you similar benefits and they require none of that.

You can't control where you are born but you can choose what citizenship you keep so shop around for a better 'offer'.

Re: Why Americans Are Going Abroad

#57

Post by davidw » Thu, Apr 23, 2015, 10:37 AM UTC

yodsanklai wrote: post #55

Fuxy wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be putting the US on too high of a pedestal. Reality is the US is not all that and you can get most if not all the opportunities you're talking about somewhere else maybe even better healthcare and unemployment benefits without having to pay tax to a country you're not even using the public services of. I have multiple citizenship and I would find it unacceptable if any of the countries demanded more then…

> Having to pay to renew you passport or processing other paperwork is acceptable paying tax to a country you don't live in isn't. One could argue that growing up in the US gave you a lot of benefits (infrastructure, education, healthcare, security and so on...), and that paying tax (even if not living there anymore) is a reasonable price for this.

You could make the same argument for France, Germany, Italy, Australia, Japan, etc...

Actually they probably gave you more, growing up, like health care.

But the US is the only country to do tax people like this.

Re: Why Americans Are Going Abroad

#58

Post by bottled_poe » Thu, Apr 23, 2015, 10:40 AM UTC

venomsnake wrote: post #30

Tharkun wrote: post #19

Bloody immigrants. Go back to your own country. Oh wait, sorry, Americans aren't immigrans, they're expats. My bad. Double standards on immigration are pretty shitty.

Actually no. I want to live at least for a short time in US, so I will either try to get some of the visas or start a company there, or hope to win the green card lottery or any other legal venue. I would never under any circumstances cross a border illegal or without respecting the country borders and laws. Crossing a border/ living somewhere without legal permit is direct attack against the sovereignty of a country…

> full stack of legal documentation

Usually in the form of USD.

Re: Why Americans Are Going Abroad

#59

Post by venomsnake » Thu, Apr 23, 2015, 10:41 AM UTC

atmosx wrote: post #50

venomsnake wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it is not. National borders are sacred.

You were not born in the Gaza strip, Syria, Turkey's east border, Mexico, South Korea or Cuba... So why give a shit, right? That's a mature way to think and act. So much for 4000+ years of human evolution.

Hmm ... South Korea is not a terrible place to be born. I was born in a country that has a track record of concentration camps and shooting defectors to the west. Problem?

Re: Why Americans Are Going Abroad

#60

Post by yodsanklai » Thu, Apr 23, 2015, 10:42 AM UTC

Fuxy wrote: post #56

yodsanklai wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Having to pay to renew you passport or processing other paperwork is acceptable paying tax to a country you don't live in isn't. One could argue that growing up in the US gave you a lot of benefits (infrastructure, education, healthcare, security and so on...), and that paying tax (even if not living there anymore) is a reasonable price for this.

One can argue that growing up in any European country gave you similar benefits and they require none of that. You can't control where you are born but you can choose what citizenship you keep so shop around for a better 'offer'.

(but taxes are higher in Europe)

I agree that from a practical point of view, it makes sense to shop around. I just disagree with the argument we hear sometimes "I don't owe anything to my country". It's not the same to be born in the US than let say a poor african country.