Japan maglev train breaks world speed record again • Hacker News Board

Re: Japan maglev train breaks world speed record again

#141

Post by akgerber » Tue, Apr 21, 2015, 8:21 PM UTC

randomsearch wrote: post #91

dkhenry wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look at Washington DC's metro its pretty much the same QoS as you get off the Berlin metro. So I am not quite sure how its considered "primitive" Berlin - 4 - 5 minute trains DC - 6 minute trains Berlin - 9 lines, 170 stations DC - 6 lines, 91 stations and thats not even the biggest metro system in the US. So really the problem isn't going back to the US, its going back to whatever place you're going to in the…

My experience is that the US has awful public transit, with the arguable exception of NYC, purely because of its subway. Here's the stats for Berlin vs Washington, as you wanted to make the comparison. Berlin subway (U-Bahn) has 10 lines, 94km (route length). Berlin trams have 22 lines, 190km. Washington Metro has 6 lines, 118km. No trams (under construction?). I'm excluding the S-Bahn, as Washington doesn't have any…

The Washington Metro is comparable to the S-Bahn. DC doesn't have a system comparable to the Berlin Metro, because it doesn't have the dense tenement neighborhoods to support such a system.

The DC metro area actually has more population than the Berlin metro area. Most of it is just built in sprawling postwar American style, though it's urbanizing more than many equivalent American cities.

Re: Japan maglev train breaks world speed record again

#142

Post by wahsd » Tue, Apr 21, 2015, 8:22 PM UTC

mmaldacker wrote: post #25

wahsd wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't be such an idiot. I get it, you enjoy European infrastructure and social democracy. Remember though that you will pay half of the taxes you pay in Germany ... oh, did you just enjoy all the benefits of German infrastructure and society without actually paying any taxes, let alone your whole life? No one is keeping you from remaining in Germany, are they? I can guarantee you they will approve your work permit an…

>and also remember Berlin's system is essentially new and was rebuilt after reunification so you are looking at a modern system. After the reunification, they only had to reconnect the lines that were separated by the wall. Only a few places needed some extensive work. You probably meant WW2 where most lines were destroyed. Note that Berlin was also one of the first cities in the world to have a metro system. >No one…

No, they didn't simply have to connect some disconnected lines. Not only did the eastern infrastructure, have to largely be rebuilt from the ground up, but even the western part was outdated and old and reunification meant that billions were spent on upgrading infrastructure.

Re: Japan maglev train breaks world speed record again

#143

Post by untog » Tue, Apr 21, 2015, 8:23 PM UTC

masklinn wrote: post #81

Someone1234 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trains still have an "end of the line." So, yes, you could if you were going fast enough. Also aircraft security was too much even pre-9/11.

> Trains still have an "end of the line." So, yes, you could if you were going fast enough. You can overrun the buffer stop (happened last year at O'Hare, a blue line train overran its buffer stop and climbed up an elevator) but you're just going to go a bit past the buffer stop (relatively, most likely a fraction of the train length), at best you'll get just outside the station Montparnasse-style ( https://en.wikipe…

If a train hit the end of the line at London Paddington at full speed it would be absolute carnage, surely. Not a guided missile with freedom of movement, but it's already heading in the right direction.

Re: Japan maglev train breaks world speed record again

#144

Post by wahsd » Tue, Apr 21, 2015, 8:25 PM UTC

vidarh wrote: post #96

ulfw wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Show me where in e.g. California taxes are HALF of those in Germany.

He's exaggerating. Or is just making silly assumptions. I don't know about Germany, but when I was considering moving from the UK to California, the total tax difference I was looking at was 1-2 percentage points at my (high) salary level. Even compared to Norway which hardly has the reputation as a low tax country, my then salary and consumption would only lead to 3-4 percentage point more tax. This was when I inclu…

Either you are full of BS or have plain no idea what you are talking about. Did you ever look at your pay or earnings statements? I know what they are in both the USA, France, Germany, and the UK and I can assure you that income taxes for middle class income earners is significantly lower in the US on average.

Re: Japan maglev train breaks world speed record again

#145

Post by wahsd » Tue, Apr 21, 2015, 8:33 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #44

wahsd wrote: post #10

I used to be all about public transportation and trains, but I cannot reconcile that anymore with advancement in technology. It simply does not make sense to me anymore to try and build high speed rail on the ground, on fixed "rails" in order to not even get close to even slow airplane speeds. With the roll-out of more sophisticated air traffic control systems that will allow denser traffic, higher frequency landing…

> It simply does not make sense to me anymore to try and build high speed rail on the ground, on fixed "rails" in order to not even get close to even slow airplane speeds. Planes have higher max speeds, but they're subject to weather delays and other issues that bring their average speeds down well into maglev territory. > With the roll-out of more sophisticated air traffic control systems that will allow denser traf…

You are not thinking objectively, it's quite obvious. Not only will weather impact the operation and speed of a maglev just as much if not more considering that high winds and / or blistering heat can significantly impact the train and track.

And if you think that a few storms disrupting the air transportation network is a problem because some idiots thought it was a good idea to make Chicago a hub then you are not thinking about the problem correctly. What you are describing is a process and business problem. Maybe north and north east airports should not be hub airports like any even half witted person would realize, and no matter what, I don't think you could even pay for all the rail lines that would need to be built in order to serve the same number of passengers between the same number of destinations as you can flexibly adapt to with air travel.

For example, Southwest started direct flights from DC to Austin two years ago because the demand was so large. You couldn't even get the plans together in the same amount of time it took to plan, permit, coordinate, and implement DC-AUS flights, which are also a connection from some other airport on top of it.

Re: Japan maglev train breaks world speed record again

#146

Post by masklinn » Tue, Apr 21, 2015, 8:39 PM UTC

joss82 wrote: post #93

jasonkester wrote: post #27

I wonder if we'll ever get back to "High Speed Air" in my lifetime. Back in the 70s, you could rock up at the airport twenty minutes before your flight left, jump on with minimal hassle, and cruise along at 600mph to your destination. Now, you need to endure two hours of having your fingernail clippers confiscated so that you can fly at 500mph to save on fuel costs. That seems to be the true advantage of rail travel.…

SNCF actually prints on their tickets "try to arrive 2 minutes before the trains departs" Pretty sure it's marketing though, the TGV can be veeery long sometimes, so it takes a while to walk to your assigned car. EDIT: source: http://tgv.lu.voyages-sncf.com/fr/avant-depart

> Pretty sure it's marketing though, the TGV can be veeery long sometimes, so it takes a while to walk to your assigned car.

Each trainset is a single unit though, so you can just step in at the first car and walk through the train to your seat. The only "danger" is paired trainsets (16 cars), if you're in the further one you have to walk a whole trainset to reach your own train (and even then it's only 200m/660ft), if you're cutting it really close you can probably forego your assigned seat and use the first trainset (you may not get a seat at all though).

Re: Japan maglev train breaks world speed record again

#147

Post by Zach_the_Lizard » Tue, Apr 21, 2015, 8:40 PM UTC

randomsearch wrote: post #91

dkhenry wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look at Washington DC's metro its pretty much the same QoS as you get off the Berlin metro. So I am not quite sure how its considered "primitive" Berlin - 4 - 5 minute trains DC - 6 minute trains Berlin - 9 lines, 170 stations DC - 6 lines, 91 stations and thats not even the biggest metro system in the US. So really the problem isn't going back to the US, its going back to whatever place you're going to in the…

My experience is that the US has awful public transit, with the arguable exception of NYC, purely because of its subway. Here's the stats for Berlin vs Washington, as you wanted to make the comparison. Berlin subway (U-Bahn) has 10 lines, 94km (route length). Berlin trams have 22 lines, 190km. Washington Metro has 6 lines, 118km. No trams (under construction?). I'm excluding the S-Bahn, as Washington doesn't have any…

>Washington Metro has 6 lines, 118km. No trams (under construction?).

DC is building a streetcar system. The H Street line is basically done and the streetcars are running, but there are issues to work out before it can officially open. Poor project management made it take forever and ended up having neighboring jurisdictions (Arlington) cancel their streetcar plans.

>The difference in this case is quite easily explained by density of population - Washington is much smaller than Berlin, with 700k vs 3.5 million. DC is not less dense than Berlin is. DC is about the same density, actually. What DC is is small: DC is ~69 square miles vs 344 square miles for Berlin. The Metro actually travels relatively far into the suburbs covering far more than just DC itself (DC again being really tiny).

What is much less dense is the surrounding area. Arlington and Alexandria (both part of DC at one point, but now part of VA) are also relatively dense by US standards (especially where the Metro goes; many people do not own cars or own one car per family) but outside of those and a few other pockets of density most of the region is significantly less dense and thus the number of trips is lower.

Also, the DC area does have two commuter rails systems: MARC and VRE, run by Maryland and Virginia respectively. MARC reaches all the way to West Virginia. Based on a cursory browsing of Wikipedia (so it must be true) this seems to be what the S-Bahn is. Not sure how comparable they are though.

> However, this doesn't explain why other US cities have such poor public transit.

Many parts of the US experienced growth after cars came on the scene, and the infrastructure was designed with them in mind. This has since been shown to be a bad thing, but at the time it seemed like the way cities of the future should be built.

From then on, local governments basically mandated suburban living. Places like New York, DC, San Francisco, Chicago, etc. grew up before the car and so weren't ruined. Their suburbs may have been, but the cities themselves weren't. We are now trying to undo the damage.

Re: Japan maglev train breaks world speed record again

#148

Post by masklinn » Tue, Apr 21, 2015, 8:41 PM UTC

jasonkester wrote: post #27

I wonder if we'll ever get back to "High Speed Air" in my lifetime. Back in the 70s, you could rock up at the airport twenty minutes before your flight left, jump on with minimal hassle, and cruise along at 600mph to your destination. Now, you need to endure two hours of having your fingernail clippers confiscated so that you can fly at 500mph to save on fuel costs. That seems to be the true advantage of rail travel.…

> Sadly, I bet the way we'll end up equalizing this will be that somebody will eventually bomb a TGV

Already happened, back in '82 Carlos the Jackal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_the_Jackal) bombed a TGV killing 5 and injuring 50.

Nothing since, it's not really worth it, you can bomb fixed locations and get more bang for your terror bucks.

Re: Japan maglev train breaks world speed record again

#149

Post by Zach_the_Lizard » Tue, Apr 21, 2015, 8:46 PM UTC

rhino369 wrote: post #82

zachalexander wrote: post #3

Amazing. Writing this from Berlin, which doesn't have maglev trains, but has phenomenal public transit. It's sad to be going back to the US soon where the infrastructure is so primitive.

Infrastructure isn't a one size fits all arrangement. Passenger rail was once common in America. In fact, America has twice as much rail as the next in line. Why don't we use it for transport? 1) Because we all have cars. Aside from a few outliers (NYC, parts of Chicago, DC, Bay Area), US cities are designed with high car ownership in mind. Less than 10% of US households don't have a car. Short train rides are less c…

> But that sort of utility wouldn't support a robust nationwide network of passenger rail.

You don't need nationwide, you need regional. The East Coast and parts of the Midwest would do well with a decent train network. Sure, Chicago to Denver is never going to be reasonable, but Chicago to Indianapolis or St. Louis? That could be a train trip.

As American re-urbanizes, these sorts of trips become more and more reasonable to make by train as cars become less necessary.

Re: Japan maglev train breaks world speed record again

#150

Post by masklinn » Tue, Apr 21, 2015, 8:55 PM UTC

kuschku wrote: post #38

cstross wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, the TGV record was set by a specially-rebuilt train set that was heavily customized -- and the test crew reportedly couldn't stand/walk around the instrument car at speeds over 500km/h due to vibration. (The track they ran the test on was newly-laid and not yet open to regular traffic: they had to replace most of the overhead cables from the stretch where the train hit maximum speed due to arcing and shock…

Interestingly, the TGV record was broken by an unmodified Velaro-D train recently. Standard rolling stock, used the week before for normal transport, used a week after for normal transport.

Pretty sure you're mistaken. The Velaro-D reached 403km/h without modifications[0], the Velaro-E did the same back in 2006. That's not the untuned record either, these belong to China's CRH380BL.

[0] http://www.mobility.siemens.com/mobility/global/en/interurba...