1.5 Million Missing Black Men • Hacker News Board

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#311

Post by tsotha » Tue, Apr 21, 2015, 4:51 AM UTC

a8da6b0c91d wrote: post #256

anigbrowl wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blacks use drugs at much higher rates than whites and blacks distribute drugs at even higher rates than whites. Most studies suggest the exact opposite to be true. http://healthland.time.com/2011/11/07/study-whites-more-like... http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/09/30/w...

The studies where they simply poll or ask indicate equivalent or lower black narcotics usage. Every piece of research that uses drug testing reveals well over double the rate of white drugs usage. This is a lie that needs to die. Blacks get arrested for drugs because they have and use drugs, relative to white people. It was the same with a huge mess of headlines about blacks getting pulled over on north east highways…

I'm also skeptical of the "whites take more drugs" argument. The ratio of black to white drug arrests is roughly the same as the ratio for those of violent crimes, and you can't explain away the violent crime ratio by assuming whites don't get arrested for committing them.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#312

Post by tsotha » Tue, Apr 21, 2015, 4:55 AM UTC

2mur wrote: post #34

Unbelievably sad. This is your drug war success.

And this is what I don't understand about the politics. Support for the drug war is strongest among African American leaders where you'd expect it to be weakest.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#313

Post by tsotha » Tue, Apr 21, 2015, 4:57 AM UTC

infruset wrote: post #40

Someone1234 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interracial marriage only works as a "solution" if there were an inverse imbalance in other racial communities to supply the men needed to fulfil the shortfall. It also completely ignores the fact that people in the black communities may not wish to date people from other races. it isn't a breading farm after all, people's choices matter a lot. If black woman want to date a black man, that is completely normal/unders…

You are starting from the assumption that it is normal that people date inside of their "race". This is an assumption that is very often made by Hollywood movies and which I find offensive, all the more because it is self-fulfilling: if you only see people of the same skin color dating one another, you're probably less likely to imagine yourself outside of the norm you perceive.

There's quite a bit of research to back up his assumption. Every article I've read on the subject bemoans the situation of black women and at the same time points out they have no interest (statistically, anyway) in men of other races.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#314

Post by hackuser » Tue, Apr 21, 2015, 5:28 AM UTC

Snesker wrote: post #289

hackuser wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The country's response to a crisis of the black American family was to imprison a large number of black males, adding another crisis to the situation. Considering that and other forms of discrimination, it's amazing that the black middle-class has expanded so much.

Imprisoning someone isn't a response to anything but crime. Imprisonment for a crime is not discrimination. You're insane.

> Imprisonment for a crime is not discrimination.

I wish it was so. Consider however:

* Many laws are and have been discriminatory. For example, laws banning minority activites such as homosexual sex or interracial marriage; laws imprisoning Japanese in WWII or banning forms of political speech in many eras; laws banning peaceful protest during political conventions; laws that penalize poor people's vices (crack, dope) much more harshly than rich people's vices (cocaine, prescription drugs).

* Police enforcement is sometimes discriminatory: Much research supports that some minorities are harassed by law enforcement (e.g., 'driving while black', or stop-and-frisk in major cities). What might be overlooked from a middle-class white can result in jail time for a poor black.

* Prosecutor enforcement is sometimes discriminatory: Research supports that some minorties are charged with harsher crimes than other citizens, for the same behavior. The powerful and connected get a pass.

* Judicial enforcement is sometimes discriminatory: Research supports that convictions and sentencing are harsher for minorities. Also consider the long history of blacks facing all-white juries. Also, the poor have much less access to judicial resources, such as a good lawyer.

There is a long history of blacks, for example, being defenseless against all-white police forces, governments and judicial systems. You can see it today; consider Eric Garner and other recent cases, where people even can be killed with no reprocussions.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#315

Post by burkaman » Tue, Apr 21, 2015, 5:36 AM UTC

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #300

burkaman wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nothing can be assumed based on group membership. Whoever does is the true racist. Yeah exactly, and there are tons of these people, and at the moment they tend to have a lot more money and power than the people they make assumptions about. Promoting individual rights doesn't do enough, because we've had such a long history of not promoting them. You have to acknowledge race in order to fight the racists of the wor…

>You have to acknowledge race in order to fight the racists of the world. // Can you give a solid example? I can't see how labelling someone "race X" allows you to fight against unequal opportunities or other discrimination or prejudice.

I mean that you need to acknowledge the concept of race. Say you're facing a 10% unemployment rate in some city. If you treat everyone as an equal individual, the solution will be some combination of economic changes, lowering taxes, increasing subsidies, whatever.

Now imagine 90% of the unemployed are black, in a city where blacks are the minority. Clearly there is more than an economic problem here. Promoting individual rights is not going to help, because all races have identical rights in this scenario, and businesses should always have the right to not hire someone.

The solution would depend on the underlying problem, but it might very well involve giving some sort of temporary advantage based on race. The parent comment advocated forgetting all race, religion, gender labels, but we can't do that until everybody agrees to let those labels go. Until then, we need to acknowledge race and gender so that we can recognize when a problem exists, and address it.

From a colorblind perspective, race is already solved, right? All races have equal rights, discrimination based on race is illegal, legally we're all good.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#316

Post by dzdt » Tue, Apr 21, 2015, 6:25 AM UTC

Snesker wrote: post #289

hackuser wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The country's response to a crisis of the black American family was to imprison a large number of black males, adding another crisis to the situation. Considering that and other forms of discrimination, it's amazing that the black middle-class has expanded so much.

Imprisoning someone isn't a response to anything but crime. Imprisonment for a crime is not discrimination. You're insane.

Everyone is a criminal. (Think: have YOU ever done anything illegal? Tried pot? Downloaded music? Thrown eggs? Driven buzzed?) Some criminals are disproportionately targeted and disproportionately punished. Lucky for you you got a pass.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#317

Post by anigbrowl » Tue, Apr 21, 2015, 6:30 AM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #307

anigbrowl wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmmm. Original article talks about the difficulty of black women finding partners of their own race for family formation. You observe that a solution to this has been legal since 1967 (obviously referring to Loving v. Virginia ) and that the potentially resulting babies are cute. I suggest that this is not such a simple issue, because the babies in question would still have to deal with structural racism later in lif…

I suggest that this is not such a simple issue, because the babies in question would still have to deal with structural racism later in life. So would the children of two black parents. So no benefit there. ...and preferring someone of your own race is now an 'extremely specific qualification'...and you think I've lost the thread? Given that 20% of the people who want this will be forever alone, yes it is. The hypoth…

recall that according to me, the solved problem is "I want to date a person satisfying $rare_condition but I can't find such people, so now I'm forever alone"

Redrafting the premise after someone has disputed your conclusion looks awfully like an attempt to move the goalposts, and this isn't the first time I've had this argument with you.

If that's not your intention, then I strongly suggest you put more effort into into articulating such assumptions up front. Since you didn't bother, I naturally assumed that the problem you were declaring to be solved was the one discussed in the article, rather than your highly idiosyncratic view of it.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#318

Post by lifeisstillgood » Tue, Apr 21, 2015, 6:44 AM UTC

fecklessyouth wrote: post #250

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The major restraining factor on young men in a village or tribal setting was always the rest of the village. When the demographics became unbalanced (war, famine) then young gangs were always to be feared (Peter Pans lost boys would not have been cute) We are fortunate in having overcome hunger in 4/5ths of the world - but it has left a lot of time on people's hands compared to a hunter gather lifestyle and a lot of…

"Is Marriage for White People?" attempts to answer that question. As I remember it, the main answer was that black women don't want to date outside their race. http://www.amazon.com/Is-Marriage-White-People-American/dp/B...

But - why? Because their fathers were black and so they associate positive feeling with that colour? Why skin colour? Why not height or body type or behaviour?

What about social pressure (you are a "race traitor" fords ting non blacks). Is it an anti white thing? Is the proportion of Hispanic dating higher? What about comparing across cultures - is the incidence of dating cross race lower than in say the UK?

The fact that we are raising race to its own singular cause for this sort of marriage-limiter shows how much race issues have a grip on our societies, but it's interesting to think around the subject.

Still would be interested to know how one can find a epidemiological "natural" experiment to solve this.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#319

Post by spacemanmatt » Tue, Apr 21, 2015, 7:42 AM UTC

Crito wrote: post #260

hackuser wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is nothing white people can do to fix this. Blacks have always decided what kind of culture they want to have and they will continue to do so. This is so clearly untrue that I wonder if it's worth pointing out the obvious. In fact, black-skinned Americans rarely have had the option of self-determination, and mostly that is due to white-skinned contemporaries who enslaved them, forced them into ghettos, segreg…

> "I have had some black friends over the years who get berated by other blacks for "acting white."" What can white people do to fix this specifically ?

We could make it more acceptable to be black.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#320

Post by jacalata » Tue, Apr 21, 2015, 9:17 AM UTC

marincounty wrote: post #275

haliou wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember a debate about high achieving black women "marrying down" (with school dropout black guys on low income) or "marrying out" with white guys. Attitude seems to be changing for the better anyway. Here's also an article [0] on the subject that cause quite a stir back in 2011. [0]: http://www.npr.org/2011/06/29/137499303/author-tells-black-w...

I read that article, and articles like it. They all leave out one thing, and I'll get hammered for stating this, and it's only my hummable opinion. As much as people want to to homogenize the sexes, their are differences in factors that determine desirability. Powerful women(degrees, income, position in society, etc.) are judged differently in my surrounding(I said in my surroundings, antidotal, don't kill me); than…

It's not offensive, it's just yet another example of "every anecdote I have from this specific culture supports X!! Why don't we just admit that X is clearly biological and not a property of culture at all!??!"