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1.5 Million Missing Black Men

nytimes.com

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Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#271

Post by burkaman »

innguest wrote: post #190
pyrocat wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is nothing white people can do to fix this. Well, except confronting our own biases, encouraging diverse hiring practices, confronting both overt and covert racism when we see it, educating ourselves on racial privilege, fighting racial profiling and sentencing in our justice system, and just in general fighting for racial equality.

You're a Cultural Marxism peddler. I am white and I think I am in the very same group as blacks and all other races, namely the group called "individuals". All we need to do is fight for individual rights and teach people respect is earned on an individual basis. Nothing can be assumed from group membership in real life; every leftist would agree with this statement, yet you want to make laws based on group membershi…

> Nothing can be assumed based on group membership. Whoever does is the true racist.

Yeah exactly, and there are tons of these people, and at the moment they tend to have a lot more money and power than the people they make assumptions about.

Promoting individual rights doesn't do enough, because we've had such a long history of not promoting them. You have to acknowledge race in order to fight the racists of the world.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#272

Post by meric »

PopsiclePete wrote: post #133
ars wrote: post #44

Historically this was solved by polygamy. (The cause of the missing men back then was usually war and travel danger on business expeditions.) Polygamy is still occurring, except without the official status of wife. Makes me wonder if the benefits of outlawing polygamy in the US might not outweigh the harm - especially because it happens anyway.

I know a few happily married couples in "open" relationships. Poly or whatever you wanna call it. And I know a few unhappy, obviously sexless couples in traditional marriages as well. For me, marriage is both an outdated and terrifying prospect. The thought of being with one woman for the rest of my life, sexually, is off-putting. So instead of doing what many others do - cheat, get caught, divorce, repeat - I just c…

The problem with polygamy in a peaceful and prosperous society is there will be huge inequality between the most attractive and the least attractive in terms of the ability to find sexual partners, which will be a strong factor in social unrest. Potentially there is a correlation between countries permitting polygamy and terrorism. Monogamy and polygamy are two sides of the same coin. I think over time society will choose the one best suited to its current circumstance, but it can take a while.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#273

Post by Crito »

thatswrong0 wrote: post #251
rayiner wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of people in prison for drug offenses are in there for dealing, not using. So the point about blacks and whites using at the same rate is a red herring.

Whites seem to deal at a higher rate: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/09/30/w... And that's not a red herring at all. Correlating use with dealing is pretty logical.

From your link:

> "This partly reflects racial differences in the drug markets in black and white communities. In poor black neighborhoods, drugs tend to be sold outdoors, in the open. In white neighborhoods, by contrast, drug transactions typically happen indoors, often between friends and acquaintances. If you sell drugs outside, you're much more likely to get caught."

Makes sense to me. I cannot recall ever being offered drugs by a white person while I was walking down the sidewalk. (While hanging out on the beach is another story...)

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#274

Post by rtpg »

random_pr wrote: post #185
DanBC wrote: post #128

The numbers are boggling. I don't understand how Americans tolerate such a blatantly racist prison system. http://www.naacp.org/pages/criminal-justice-fact-sheet

because it isn't obviously racist. you can't just say "more african americans and hispanics are arrested than whites or asians, therefore, police are targeting african americans and hispanics unfairly." that's not how it works. wrt. drug-related crimes, sure, there seems to be a weird disparity (does it take into account 'casual' drug users vs. 'hardcore' drug users?). wrt. violent crime, however, the percent of arre…

>African Americans serve virtually as much time in prison for a drug offense (58.7 months) as whites do for a violent offense (61.7 months). (Sentencing Project)

I think the fact that blacks are given much less lenient sentencing is enough to put the game largely in the oppressive class's favor, and to call the system racist.

And, if purely by statistics, it's hard to argue that this skewing is because all of these people are drug dealers (if they're all drug dealers, who are they selling to?)

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#275

Post by marincounty »

haliou wrote: post #208
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The major restraining factor on young men in a village or tribal setting was always the rest of the village. When the demographics became unbalanced (war, famine) then young gangs were always to be feared (Peter Pans lost boys would not have been cute) We are fortunate in having overcome hunger in 4/5ths of the world - but it has left a lot of time on people's hands compared to a hunter gather lifestyle and a lot of…

I remember a debate about high achieving black women "marrying down" (with school dropout black guys on low income) or "marrying out" with white guys. Attitude seems to be changing for the better anyway. Here's also an article [0] on the subject that cause quite a stir back in 2011. [0]: http://www.npr.org/2011/06/29/137499303/author-tells-black-w...

I read that article, and articles like it. They all leave out one thing, and I'll get hammered for stating this, and it's only my hummable opinion.

As much as people want to to homogenize the sexes, their are differences in factors that determine desirability.

Powerful women(degrees, income, position in society, etc.) are judged differently in my surrounding(I said in my surroundings, antidotal, don't kill me); than powerful men.

Are a lot of women are attracted to powerful men--yes, for the majority. Unless the man has horrid genes, and even then they line up. The man with the biggest cave still seems to attract to most--especially later in life.

It works in the opposite direction for women. I have never met a man(except in scripts, on t.v.) that judges women on degrees, or wealth, or status in society. I have never heard a man say, "I find women in power/authority sexy!" I don't know why. I hope it changes. I just think we forget about millions of years of biology--men are looking for good genes, a kind disposition--maybe someone to raise the spawn?

Yes, it's wrong. I'm just tired of hearing "Why is she single--she is so accomplished?" Yes, I hope it changes. Go ahead kill me. There's too many examples to list, and it's politically incorrect to even talk about. Again, I'm sorry if I offended anyone.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#276

Post by selimthegrim »

dmix wrote: post #13

> The black women left behind find that potential partners of the same race are scarce, while men, who face an abundant supply of potential mates, don’t need to compete as hard to find one. As a result, Mr. Charles said, “men seem less likely to commit to romantic relationships, or to work hard to maintain them.” Interesting, I never thought about this side-effect of mass incarceration. Another aggravating factor in…

On the list of modern ideas, you might also want to toss in the pile women being less war-prone, especially over there if nothing else.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#277

Post by rtpg »

omonra wrote: post #138
southphillyman wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And somehow that's everybody else's fault? Yah, it's called institutional racism. Policy generated poverty, sub par educational standards exacerbated by the destruction of the nuclear family, and a significant percentage of people who can't earn livable wages or vote after being filtered through the industrial prison complex. We are human beings, there is enough history to suggest we behave like savages when reduced…

Institutional racism in the US was a lot stronger 60 or 100 years ago - yet the level of black crime was significantly lower. I had a hard time finding chart to show this, but here is the Chicago murder rate chart for 1870-2008: http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q689/john_albert1/murder... I see a huge spike in the 60s with gradual leveling - but we are still 3x higher than before whatever happened in the 1960s...

I think everyone acknowledges things have gotten better, but the effects of institutional racism are pretty long-term.

Just an example, but up until maybe a generation ago, it was nigh-impossible to get a mortgage on your house if you were black or decided to live in a neighborhood that was less than 95% white. Even when going through federal aid programs.

Meaning people end up having to go through what are basically loan sharks to get housing for their family, and if anything at all happened, the house is lost instantly. Makes it pretty hard for the grandparents to retire in their tiny house when nobody actually owns the property.

I think the crime level stats are usually confounding with poverty rates. Pretty sure the color of one's skin doesn't make it more likely to kill someone, but there's an argument for poor environments (for example, the worst apartment possible because literally no one else will rent to you, in an area with poor social services) helping spawn crime.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#278

Post by burkaman »

Crito wrote: post #260
hackuser wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is nothing white people can do to fix this. Blacks have always decided what kind of culture they want to have and they will continue to do so. This is so clearly untrue that I wonder if it's worth pointing out the obvious. In fact, black-skinned Americans rarely have had the option of self-determination, and mostly that is due to white-skinned contemporaries who enslaved them, forced them into ghettos, segreg…

> "I have had some black friends over the years who get berated by other blacks for "acting white."" What can white people do to fix this specifically ?

Well, lots of white people perpetuate the same stereotypes, so obviously if you do that, stop it. And you can call other people on their bullshit if you ever hear it.

Assuming you never encounter this particular type of racism, it's still all connected. Addressing any type of discrimination and racism helps solve the general problem, which this "acting white" stereotype is just a symptom of. I think it's a little disingenuous to look at these individual symptoms and say "nothing I can do". "Nothing I can do about prison populations, those people made their own choices." "Nothing I can do about poverty, I already support them through taxes, they can improve themselves if they want to." "Nothing I can do about education inequalities, they can apply to college just like I did." etc.

Not saying you share these opinions, but you hear them a lot. And it's not like black people have no responsibility here, but there's plenty to be done by everyone.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#279

Post by omonra »

stickfigure wrote: post #263
omonra wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that's a given. Ie once drug trade loses its profitability, I expect the individuals involved in it to move to something else (but hardly to other poorly paid jobs requiring commensurate levels of education). Ie - did ending of prohibition bring the end of the organized crime?

I would be perfectly happy to accept a massive reduction in organized crime, even if it doesn't end. Crime is not perfectly fungible. There just isn't another victimless crime available with this kind of popularity and profitability.

I'm all for decriminalizing drugs, no argument from me on that.

However Portugal homicide rate went up by 40% after they did it (https://fullfact.org/factchecks/Portugal_decriminalisation_d...). So not sure it's the silver bullet people expet.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#280

Post by qnaal »

burkaman wrote: post #262
im3w1l wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope you don't mind me asking you this. I've had this idea, that I think may make the situation better. They idea is that in black-on-black, as well as victimless crimes, the defendant is allowed to be judged by a jury of black people. Then the black community can decide for itself what punishments are best for the community, and could give more lenient punishments if the current ones are seen as harsh enough to be…

This just sounds like another version of separate but equal. I understand the logic, but we want to work toward one big united community, not legally define racial communities. It's pretty obvious historically that separation doesn't work at all.

separation doesn't work for what?
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