I feel like I learned something about the problem. I was expecting to also learn about the solution but instead got hit with sales pitch at the end there.
How does Superpowered get around ALSA and the Audio Flinger?
Android’s 10 Millisecond Problem explained
31–40 of 311 posts
Re: Android’s 10 Millisecond Problem explained
#32> “Consumers ... have a strong desire to buy such apps on Android, as shown by revenue data on iOS...” That's like saying, “Consumers have a strong desire to buy gourmet steaks from McDonald's, as shown by revenue data from Ruth's Chris.” No, McDonald's serves billions of meals by understanding its own market, not by catering to diners at Ruth's Chris. And naturally, comparing top sellers at each will give very diffe…
This is not a good analogy. McDonald's and Ruth's Chris are not direct competitors, they are targeting completely different markets. Android and iOS are in direct competition. If we have to use a food analogy, I would propose Starbucks and a competing coffee shop. Almost all the major players in app development make corresponding Android and iOS versions of their apps. Imagine if Twitter or Snapchat only had an iOS o…
> This is not a good analogy.
I'd say it's a bad analogy because most people who don't live in the US have no idea what Ruth's Chris is.
Re: Android’s 10 Millisecond Problem explained
#33interestingly, a 2012 article[1] by Arun Raghavan mentions:
On the Galaxy Nexus, for example, the best latency I can get appears to be 176 ms. This is pretty high for certain types of applications, particularly ones that generate tones based on user input. With PulseAudio, where we dynamically adjust buffering based on what clients request, I was able to drive down the total buffering to approximately 20 ms (too much lower, and we started getting dropouts). There is likely room for improvement here, and it is something on my todo list, but even out-of-the-box, we’re doing quite well.
Let's get systemd on android and then see !
[1] http://arunraghavan.net/2012/01/pulseaudio-vs-audioflinger-f...
Re: Android’s 10 Millisecond Problem explained
#34This is a pet peeve of mine. Hackers, when measuring time for software performance, please use something smaller than milliseconds. 0ms is a Dirty Lie!
In this case the performance measure in question is whether the latency is perceptible to humans or not. Milliseconds is the appropriate unit. Nobody is going to notice differences of less than 1ms.
Accumulation.
If x is the unit of measure for the end-result and we have n components that add together, then we need at least x/n as unit of measure for the performance of each component. x/(2*n) is more reasonable to not deviate from the target performance more than one x after rounding in the worst-case.
Re: Android’s 10 Millisecond Problem explained
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is not a good analogy. McDonald's and Ruth's Chris are not direct competitors, they are targeting completely different markets. Android and iOS are in direct competition. If we have to use a food analogy, I would propose Starbucks and a competing coffee shop. Almost all the major players in app development make corresponding Android and iOS versions of their apps. Imagine if Twitter or Snapchat only had an iOS o…
> This is not a good analogy. I'd say it's a bad analogy because most people who don't live in the US have no idea what Ruth's Chris is.
Nor do most people who do live in the US, I would imagine... I infer that it's a high-end steak joint, but I've never heard of it.
Re: Android’s 10 Millisecond Problem explained
#36Isn't this kind of a known issue in Linux land? As much as it has improved, latency has always been the bane of audio applications in the Linux kernel. I remember in the days of kernel 2.2 that even XMMS would stop playing any music if I started using more than one or two applications.
Recently I got one of those cheap USB interfaces to connect my guitar. I spent some good 4 hours changing the kernel to "low latency" one provided by ubuntu, then trying to setup aRTs to run, then trying to make pulseaudio work with it, then figuring out how to keep both aRTs and pulseaudio dependent applications happy. In the end I got most of it working and I could run some kind of guitar effects application, but the next minute I realized that the volume control media keys stopped working. It was enough for me to throw the usb interface in the drawer and give up on linux for audio applications on workstations: buying a 50€ effect pedal was cheaper than all the time devoted to it.
Re: Android’s 10 Millisecond Problem explained
#37One piece of software that does do very well on Android is Caustic3. Admittedly, I am likely creating loops instead of live playing but the experience is a good one.
Even better is that you can run the OSX/Windows version for £0.00 and copy your projects over to work on a "real" machine after tinkering on your phone throughout the day.
Re: Android’s 10 Millisecond Problem explained
#38Up to the ALSA driver step these delays would be the same on any Linux system. Do Linux desktop systems experience these types of delays? I have experienced these types of delays trying to setup a Windows box as karaoke machine. In fact, I've never seen a DJ use anything but a Mac. That leaves the question, how does Apple do it?
Re: Android’s 10 Millisecond Problem explained
#39> “Consumers ... have a strong desire to buy such apps on Android, as shown by revenue data on iOS...” That's like saying, “Consumers have a strong desire to buy gourmet steaks from McDonald's, as shown by revenue data from Ruth's Chris.” No, McDonald's serves billions of meals by understanding its own market, not by catering to diners at Ruth's Chris. And naturally, comparing top sellers at each will give very diffe…
This is not a good analogy. McDonald's and Ruth's Chris are not direct competitors, they are targeting completely different markets. Android and iOS are in direct competition. If we have to use a food analogy, I would propose Starbucks and a competing coffee shop. Almost all the major players in app development make corresponding Android and iOS versions of their apps. Imagine if Twitter or Snapchat only had an iOS o…
It's also a poor analogy because McDonald's is a futures trader with a private hedge (its stores) while Ruth's Chris is a steakhouse.
Re: Android’s 10 Millisecond Problem explained
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
The issue isn't about having your phone play music, it's about you playing music on your phone, in some cases with friends who play on their own phones.
Ah, for that I have a workstation. But as my guitar playing is very poor it doesn't help a great deal.
It seems you're talking about two different things still.
If you have an iOS device, you can connect an electric guitar to it via a dedicated (but relatively inexpensive) interface and have it sound like a reasonably amp plus some effect processors. It's really great for mobile musicians. I don't even mention Garageband and other apps which basically allow you to compose quite decent music on the go.