Google, Microsoft, Stall Points, and Growth • Hacker News Board

Re: Google, Microsoft, Stall Points, and Growth

#11

Post by Steko » Wed, Apr 15, 2015, 12:41 AM UTC

skj wrote: post #6

papaver wrote: post #3

i would say i felt similar lackluster when i interviewed (engineering position) there a few years ago. probably one of the worst interviews i've had, completely mechanical. literally all human emotion removed from it. the interview consisted of purely how well one did on the 5 sessions of solving problems. not a single session even bothered to take into account personality. the last interviewer explained they did't w…

> not a single session even bothered to take into account personality. So you'd prefer that the interviewers set up situations for unconscious biases to take hold? That would hurt the quality of engineering at Google.

Perhaps that's not the end of the world. Is Google's primary burden to growth their quality of engineering? I doubt it, so weighing the entire interview on coding skills seems like a mistake, one that is compounded by creating a homogenous culture where everyone has the same blind spots.

Re: Google, Microsoft, Stall Points, and Growth

#12

Post by nrao123 » Wed, Apr 15, 2015, 12:49 AM UTC

ChuckMcM wrote: post #2

It is an interesting analysis. I've followed Google's numbers pretty closely since I left in 2010 to track trends from the outside that had started becoming apparent on the inside. Basically there is a limit on how "good" you can be at search advertising, and other companies are relentlessly investing there and so as Microsoft, for example, has quarters of growing ad value both in CPC and volume. Google has declining…

Google's revenue formula is: CTR x CPC x # of Searches. If number of searches & CPCs are under pressure then they will continue to tinker with CTRs by changing ad formats & screwing with the user experience:

https://cgviews.wordpress.com/2014/10/22/google-changing-ad-...

https://cgviews.wordpress.com/2014/10/14/changing-google-ad-...

https://cgviews.wordpress.com/2014/01/15/google-ad-changing-...

https://cgviews.wordpress.com/2014/01/15/googles-changing-ad...

Re: Google, Microsoft, Stall Points, and Growth

#13

Post by frozenport » Wed, Apr 15, 2015, 12:59 AM UTC

Claims of MS decline are not serious, they ignore that the beaste has been making billions in profits every year.

Re: Google, Microsoft, Stall Points, and Growth

#14

Post by robryan » Wed, Apr 15, 2015, 1:04 AM UTC

papaver wrote: post #3

i would say i felt similar lackluster when i interviewed (engineering position) there a few years ago. probably one of the worst interviews i've had, completely mechanical. literally all human emotion removed from it. the interview consisted of purely how well one did on the 5 sessions of solving problems. not a single session even bothered to take into account personality. the last interviewer explained they did't w…

"but there isn't much coming out of google thats pushing the envelope these days for me."

What about things like the partnership with spacex and self driving cars?

Re: Google, Microsoft, Stall Points, and Growth

#15

Post by outside1234 » Wed, Apr 15, 2015, 1:29 AM UTC

skj wrote: post #6

papaver wrote: post #3

i would say i felt similar lackluster when i interviewed (engineering position) there a few years ago. probably one of the worst interviews i've had, completely mechanical. literally all human emotion removed from it. the interview consisted of purely how well one did on the 5 sessions of solving problems. not a single session even bothered to take into account personality. the last interviewer explained they did't w…

> not a single session even bothered to take into account personality. So you'd prefer that the interviewers set up situations for unconscious biases to take hold? That would hurt the quality of engineering at Google.

The counter to your argument is that many of Google's products, like Google+, feel like something a shut-in would develop. No soul, no emotional appeal, and I suspect it comes out of this engineering is everything (at the expense of product people and creative types) mentality.

Re: Google, Microsoft, Stall Points, and Growth

#16

Post by seanmcdirmid » Wed, Apr 15, 2015, 2:33 AM UTC

susan_hall wrote: post #10

bkjelden wrote: post #4

I'm not sure I agree with the author's analysis on compensation. While RSUs at a large company don't have the growth potential of a startup, Google, Microsoft, etc still seem to be the smarter choice for compensation-minded engineers. And of course the author also ignores the CEO change that occurred at Microsoft in 2000, and the reawakening that has occurred after his departure in 2014.

That is a good point. History is going to remember Ballmer as one of the worst CEOs in history, though, unlike Jeffrey Skilling or Bernard Ebbers, Ballmer will be remembered for mistakes of omission rather than commission. And the revival of Microsoft should be factored in to a full understanding of the situation.

Ballmer grew profits, there is no denying that. He definitely missed a lot of things, but there is no qualification for the title of "one of the worst CEOs in history," just like Bush 2 made mistakes but will hardly be remembered as one of the worst presidents.

Re: Google, Microsoft, Stall Points, and Growth

#17

Post by nbevans » Wed, Apr 15, 2015, 2:33 AM UTC

frozenport wrote: post #13

Claims of MS decline are not serious, they ignore that the beaste has been making billions in profits every year.

Yup. Entire article seemed hinged on a false premise about Microsoft. I stopped reading as soon as that became clear.

Re: Google, Microsoft, Stall Points, and Growth

#18

Post by azakai » Wed, Apr 15, 2015, 3:10 AM UTC

frozenport wrote: post #13

Claims of MS decline are not serious, they ignore that the beaste has been making billions in profits every year.

The article talks about a decline in growth, and towards stabilization - not a decline towards vanishing.

Re: Google, Microsoft, Stall Points, and Growth

#19

Post by robot22 » Wed, Apr 15, 2015, 3:21 AM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #16

susan_hall wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a good point. History is going to remember Ballmer as one of the worst CEOs in history, though, unlike Jeffrey Skilling or Bernard Ebbers, Ballmer will be remembered for mistakes of omission rather than commission. And the revival of Microsoft should be factored in to a full understanding of the situation.

Ballmer grew profits, there is no denying that. He definitely missed a lot of things, but there is no qualification for the title of "one of the worst CEOs in history," just like Bush 2 made mistakes but will hardly be remembered as one of the worst presidents.

I agree Ballmer was not "one of the worst CEOs in history", but Bush will quite certainly rank among the worst presidents in history. Bush's two war mistakes were gargantuan, scholars estimate over one million war dead in Iraq, in addition he accelerated the decline of the American state in numerous other aspects.

Re: Google, Microsoft, Stall Points, and Growth

#20

Post by seanmcdirmid » Wed, Apr 15, 2015, 4:23 AM UTC

robot22 wrote: post #19

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ballmer grew profits, there is no denying that. He definitely missed a lot of things, but there is no qualification for the title of "one of the worst CEOs in history," just like Bush 2 made mistakes but will hardly be remembered as one of the worst presidents.

I agree Ballmer was not "one of the worst CEOs in history", but Bush will quite certainly rank among the worst presidents in history. Bush's two war mistakes were gargantuan, scholars estimate over one million war dead in Iraq, in addition he accelerated the decline of the American state in numerous other aspects.

Eh, I'm no Bush fan, and the historians will sort it out 20 or so years from now anyways. There were plenty of bad presidents in the 19th century to compete with.

Hyperboles are almost always inaccurate.