Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Fatal silence: Why do so many fortysomething men kill themselves?

bbc.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 91 posts

Re: Fatal silence: Why do so many fortysomething men kill themselves?

#71

Post by brc »

ansible wrote: post #52
brc wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So true. Statistically speaking, we can't all reach our goals and fulfil our dreams, because many people share the same goals/dreams. By your 40s it is really hitting home if you have missed the boat. You're running out of time to turn it around, and those rutted-in habits are tough to break. You begin to realise how bad some past decision were. Getting through this for most people is tough. Throw in some relationshi…

Adding to all that... In your 40's (for a man) is realy when a lot of life's possibilities close off for you. If you haven't already set your life's trajectory to your satisfaction, you are in serious trouble. Before 40, it seems there is still time to fix things. Switch careers, move, get more education, etc. This all happens to women to, but in their 30's, especially so with regards to family. But somehow they must…

Well, for women who wanted children and gradually have the option closed off to them, it can be pretty heartbreaking. That must be harder. After all, a man can still achieve success in their 50s or 60s, but the possibility of childbirth is gradually switched off for women.

Re: Fatal silence: Why do so many fortysomething men kill themselves?

#72

Post by mpdehaan2 »

stuff4ben wrote: post #53

As a 40 year old man myself, I've felt the growing ageism in the tech industry since I turned 30. This even here in laid back RTP, NC. I'd imagine it's worse off in the startupy world in Silicon Valley. Every man is different, but I think for me it's a matter of not being able to provide the lifestyle I want to provide for my wife and kids. The movie RV ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0449089/ ) is quite relevant too.…

I live in RTP and don't find the ageism thing to be too notable, but I do note that companies do like to hire people like themselves at times, and this is the one thing that happens in an interview that nobody talks about - what really is "cultural fit". Though, often, that's not hiring the guy that has been burned out by 40 years at IBM - not because he's old, but because that place can eat your soul out. Younger employees want to feel like they'll be able to make decisions too.

Computer Science seems prone to this because it's such a weird mix of creative and also deeply technical, it almost seems to make it a harder field to work in sometimes, because both instincts can't usually be expressed well in group contexts.

As for the perception of why ageism may exist, newer folks want to replace technology quicker, and don't have as much historical memory, so if anything, I think the challenge is to keep replacing things you are working on, and not specialize too much.

I think this will also get easier as the big wave of new C.S. folks get older themselves, but I built my last company with most of everyone in their 30s and early 40s.

Might vary based on what sort of companies.v Startups seem more prone to it to me, but my startup was pretty well spread out. More established companies are less likely to be that way.

Re: Fatal silence: Why do so many fortysomething men kill themselves?

#73

Post by cpursley »

brc wrote: post #37
hising wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how do you explain the difference between male and female? Women has lower expectations of life or they hit their expectations better than men in general?

I think they hit their expectations more often. Lots of women develop goals of having a family, a decent husband and stability in their life. Not all, obviously, but it is a common enough set of goals. Lots of women achieve these goals and gain a state of relative happiness. Lots of men develop goals of things like sporting prowess, business success and material wealth. These things are much less common to achieve th…

That's an interesting observation on goals.

Re: Fatal silence: Why do so many fortysomething men kill themselves?

#74

Post by spacemanmatt »

nailer wrote: post #56
plongeur wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think you have failed? Because the superficial rule set of your surrounding social group dictates so? If you don't harm other people and every now and then make someone happy or smile - then you did not, do not and will not fail! Guys like Donald Trump are failures [1] - you most likely are not. Do something to reshift perspectives if you're stuck in one that makes you feel so bad about your life that you…

Donald Trump is an obviously insecure man, so he's pretty low value even by the aforementioned superficial rule set.

Man, you really nailed it (see what I did there?) about insecurity. He broadcasts it.

Re: Fatal silence: Why do so many fortysomething men kill themselves?

#75

Post by unstabilo »

hising wrote: post #62
unstabilo wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3. The number of reported suicidal attempts are actually higher for women.

Where did you find that information?

I already linked below, I didn't want to repeat it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide

Re: Fatal silence: Why do so many fortysomething men kill themselves?

#76

Post by rndrnd »

stuff4ben wrote: post #53

As a 40 year old man myself, I've felt the growing ageism in the tech industry since I turned 30. This even here in laid back RTP, NC. I'd imagine it's worse off in the startupy world in Silicon Valley. Every man is different, but I think for me it's a matter of not being able to provide the lifestyle I want to provide for my wife and kids. The movie RV ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0449089/ ) is quite relevant too.…

In terms of what can be done, this recent thread on ageism might help: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9361580

Re: Fatal silence: Why do so many fortysomething men kill themselves?

#77

Post by rndrnd »

netcan wrote: post #58

As a young man (maybe it's similar for women, but I suspect there is are some differences here) thinking about your life and its possibilities is usually about the environment. I thought of my own "hard abilities" like talent in math or sports as a fixed thing or more precisely a sort of talent effort equation. I though of the environment (if I get this opportunity) as the determining wildcard. I thought of my own co…

I think a lot of this disappointment at 40 comes from the fact that a lot of kids (especially in the US) were told silly things like "you are special" and "you can become anything you want to become". So a lot of boys grew up with the idea that they were going to be Richard Feynman + Bill Gates + Wayne Gretzky rolled into one. When that didn't pan out, they didn't understand what happened to them. Nothing happened - you were born human.

This whole "you're special" thing wasn't always here, it's a relatively new thing.

Re: Fatal silence: Why do so many fortysomething men kill themselves?

#78

Post by kstenerud »

tobiasu wrote: post #30

Why do people suddenly care for others when they had enough of this shitty space rock? You gave no shits the last three decades. Given the rabbit-like pest that we are - why should you? I want to end my life where and whenever it suits me. Hypocrites please stay away.

Because people DO care, but they generally don't show it much. Often it takes a shock like this for them to realize how much they actually do care.

It's easy to fall into the thought trap of "nobody cares", followed by "because there's no reason for them to care", to "because I'm / they're worthless", to "Nothing but parasites", to "We should all just go extinct."

We are all social beings, and deficiencies in social interaction can and do affect our psyche in very dramatic ways.

Re: Fatal silence: Why do so many fortysomething men kill themselves?

#79

Post by atom-morgan »

adventured wrote: post #23
marvin wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Testosterone actually peaks around age 20 and gradually declines after that, accelerating around age 30. By 40, it's been falling for a long time.

I'm finding vast disagreement over whether testosterone peaks at 20 or closer to 40. Can you provide some good sources? Some sources show it declining drastically from 20 to 40 (by as much as 90%), others claim it peaks between 35-40 and gradually declines. It seems to be all over the map. For example: "Studies show that most men experience a 2% drop-off in testosterone production each year after they turn 30." http:…

I don't have sources on hand but I recently had my testosterone levels checked at a TRT office and they seemed to agree it's highest in your 20s and decreases after that. It was why they were so surprised to have me (24) getting my testosterone levels checked. Most of their clientele are men in their 30-40s+.

Re: Fatal silence: Why do so many fortysomething men kill themselves?

#80

Post by reitanqild »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #54
reitanqild wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More importantly it is wrong.

Why do you believe it is wrong? Is this merely dueling anecdotes (plus vacri's accusation of sexism, as if that were a real argument), or is there actual data?

  Why do you believe it is wrong?

  Is this merely dueling anecdotes (plus vacri's accusation
  of sexism, as if that were a real argument), or is there 
  actual data?
Because of the word "never"[0]. That means it is trivial to prove the statement to be false as I and others have plenty of examples that falsifies the statement.

[0]: M8 says: "some people claim that women never blame themselves" emphasis mine

Edit: And I didn't downvote any of you, someone who didn't care to say why did.

Post reply on HN