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Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

improvingsoftware.com

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Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#121

Post by jacquesm »

tajen wrote: post #105
MCRed wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm approaching 50, am employed, though I've found that the job search is a bit harder now-- particularly with bay area startups I saw a %100 correlation: If the interview as on video (eg: they could see the white in my beard) I didn't get a second interview. If by phone (no video) I'd get offers. Also, last year in Austin I made exactly %20 more than I did in Seattle in 2000. Kinda sad-- up %20 in 15 years-- that do…

> white in my beard What about tinting ("dieing?" sorry for not knowing the word in English) your hair? It's superficial, but if it lands a job, it's fair.

If that's what would land a job you can keep it.

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#122

Post by hoboon »

jv22222 wrote: post #116

Somehow I can't equate myself to my age number, 46. In 25 years there has never been a moment when I wasn't in love with learning the latest cutting edge tech. Over the years it's been so much fun... ...to progress from the BBC B to pascal on the mac to pc's to unix boxes to c cgi scripts to perl to php to mySQL to flash actionscript to ruby to javascript to noSQL to node to socket.io to html5 css3 to iOS to android…

This is fantastic, and makes me hopeful. I'm almost 40 and no real career accomplishments but there's still time for me, maybe, before I just decide to hang it up and just go home.

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#123

Post by cubano »

jakobegger wrote: post #111
jarsin wrote: post #25

Lets see every 20-30 year old we have brought in the past 3 years: A) Is so arrogant they think they know it all. Then when they turn in the code it's barely passable and it become clear they are going to be difficult to work with. B) Are overly emotional and they all take things way too seriously. Now every 35+ person we have brought in for a project is: A) Professional. Gets the job done and very well. B) Sees the…

I think that there's a huge variation among developers regardless of age or experience. There are people who are 25 and believe they've seen it all, and there are 45 year olds who tell you they've seen it all. What they have in common is that they don't listen to your advise and refuse to learn new things.

What they have in common is that they don't listen to your advise and refuse to learn new things.

I was on a job interview a few days ago and was asked "What do you dislike the most about working with others on a team" and gave them your exact answer, thinking it sensible giving the state of software dev nowadays.

I could tell immediately that they didn't care for it one bit, and the interview ended a few minutes later. I don't really know what they wanted to hear, but that sure was not it.

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#124

Post by hoboon »

bikamonki wrote: post #2

More options: - Go solo. At 40 you should be experienced enough to handle up to mid-sized projects, alone and on a reasonable time-frame. Try to pick projects that your clients will actually use, with new features and support contracts you will have steady income for the long-term. - Go startup. Stop thinking you need to come up with the next über-for-x. There are plenty of opportunities for small sass shops that cat…

> Go solo. At 40 you should be experienced enough to handle up to mid-sized projects, alone and on a reasonable time-frame. Try to pick projects that your clients will actually use,

someday i might get there.

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#125

Post by jacquesm »

jarsin wrote: post #25

Lets see every 20-30 year old we have brought in the past 3 years: A) Is so arrogant they think they know it all. Then when they turn in the code it's barely passable and it become clear they are going to be difficult to work with. B) Are overly emotional and they all take things way too seriously. Now every 35+ person we have brought in for a project is: A) Professional. Gets the job done and very well. B) Sees the…

I've seen some extremely capable young people, really, it was absolutely incredible how far ahead of their age group they were.

Once you seen enough people you realize the bell curve always seems to apply, the curve shifts right along the experience axis over time but it will always be there and there will always be outliers. Don't rule out the 20 year olds just because of their age either.

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#126

Post by jacquesm »

therealwill wrote: post #8

Or plan C. For younger engineers start thinking about financial independence. Software Engineers enjoy a high starting salary and an even higher mid career salary so it is entirely possible to achieve financial independence in your 30s-40s with a frugal lifestyle and smart investing.

Second that. Being in software gives you a half decent shot at this, it would be a whole lot harder if you were a brick-layer.

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#127

Post by dmcg »

I really didn't see any issues other than day-rate-compression through my 40s. Now I'm nearing 50 my memory definitely isn't what it used to be, but my expression in code is improving to compensate.

I feel that my influence and ability to drive good outcomes gets better as I learn more about myself, but the nurses here are telling me to go back to bed, so I'll have to turn off this computer thing now.

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#128

Post by aikah »

MCRed wrote: post #91
derrekl wrote: post #69

I don't know a single software dev over 40 who isn't employed, and I know many that age. None of them had to change fields. Some are managers, but most are "senior" devs. Many of these guys have been programming internet technologies since the later 90's. It seems in the places I've lived (LA, DC) the salaries are pretty squashed together after 5 years experience. Basically anyone with that experience is getting a si…

I'm approaching 50, am employed, though I've found that the job search is a bit harder now-- particularly with bay area startups I saw a %100 correlation: If the interview as on video (eg: they could see the white in my beard) I didn't get a second interview. If by phone (no video) I'd get offers. Also, last year in Austin I made exactly %20 more than I did in Seattle in 2000. Kinda sad-- up %20 in 15 years-- that do…

there was a news once about a 40/50 y.o. guy ( I think he was from UK ) who couldn't get a job as a manager in US because he was semi-bald. So he shaved his head entirely and found a good position in a flash. I need to find the link , this was an interesting story.

Look is important,unfortunately, but it isn't always about age, sometimes you're too fat, or not white enough ...

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#129

Post by monkeyshelli »

jarsin wrote: post #25

Lets see every 20-30 year old we have brought in the past 3 years: A) Is so arrogant they think they know it all. Then when they turn in the code it's barely passable and it become clear they are going to be difficult to work with. B) Are overly emotional and they all take things way too seriously. Now every 35+ person we have brought in for a project is: A) Professional. Gets the job done and very well. B) Sees the…

B) Are overly emotional and they all take things way too seriously.

I've noticed that some young devs have really, really hard time when we discover bugs in "their baby". This most likely relates to the underlying arrogance ("there cannot be anything wrong with my code").

I hope that all the future gigs I end up, I'm part of the effort to create professional environment where the younger devs can pick-up professionalism from the seniors.

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#130

Post by zwischenzug »

therealwill wrote: post #8

Or plan C. For younger engineers start thinking about financial independence. Software Engineers enjoy a high starting salary and an even higher mid career salary so it is entirely possible to achieve financial independence in your 30s-40s with a frugal lifestyle and smart investing.

I've more or less done this, and now pickjobs for what I'll learn, who I'm working with, and lifestyle.
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