After reading stuff like this I never know what to think. I am 28 and just getting started. I hope to land my first developer position by the end of the year. So what am I to make of it? By the time I am competent enough I will be expendable? I am not discouraged but articles like these don't make sense to me. Almost everywhere I look and in every aspect of my life I am always "behind" and I don't feel like it but everybody is telling me I am...
Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)
41–50 of 303 posts
Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem with age is you become less flexible. If your have a business where you know what you will be doing in 6 months time then experience is great - when your plans change weekly then the flexibility of youth is what you want.
Age makes employees less flexible in some senses like not being willing to put up with some of the crap that younger people will (60 hour weeks, endless crunches, etc.) I once did, but will no longer tolerate that crap from an employer. But being older doesn't mean you stop learning, adapting to change, or lose the ability to deal with moving targets. I'm hopping rapidly between roles and widely varied tasks at my cu…
>Age makes employees less flexible in some senses like not being willing to put up with some of the crap that younger people will (60 hour weeks, endless crunches, etc.)
This stuff is a false economy anyhow since it inevitably leads to a massive ramp up in technical debt even with the very best programmers.
Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)
#43Lets see every 20-30 year old we have brought in the past 3 years: A) Is so arrogant they think they know it all. Then when they turn in the code it's barely passable and it become clear they are going to be difficult to work with. B) Are overly emotional and they all take things way too seriously. Now every 35+ person we have brought in for a project is: A) Professional. Gets the job done and very well. B) Sees the…
"B) Are overly emotional and they all take things way too seriously." This can be a positive. My experience with 40+ year olds is that they tend to sacrifice user experience/security for what they know. "Our customers won't care if they have to use Internet Explorer with ActiveX as long as it gets the job done." My point is that an experienced programmer who is not up to date can be as detrimental an arrogant 20 year…
"My experience with 40+ year olds is that they tend to sacrifice user experience/security for what they know."
I'm sure there are some people who don't expand, though I am in my 40s and am constantly pressing for the best UX possible for customers. I've suffered enough with bad UX, I won't go along with inflicting that on anyone no matter how challenging it might be to fix. On the other hand I am (almost) always grateful for people pointing out bugs in things I write now, but used to be a lot more insecure about it. A hit to the pride is nothing compared to the pain of shipping something broken.
Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)
#44After reading stuff like this I never know what to think. I am 28 and just getting started. I hope to land my first developer position by the end of the year. So what am I to make of it? By the time I am competent enough I will be expendable? I am not discouraged but articles like these don't make sense to me. Almost everywhere I look and in every aspect of my life I am always "behind" and I don't feel like it but ev…
A programmer will never ever ever ever be expendable, in fact, demand for programmers just grows everyday and we just started wiring the Internet on things. I am 40, I just had my first kid, I do not have a ton of karma in HN ;) You are never behind, just follow your own path...
Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)
#45Don't specialize in things that depreciate as rapidly as programming languages! C++ experience is quickly getting less relevant over time, but stochastic calculus, digital signal processing, machine learning, and distributed systems aren't. Some of those specialties get more valuable; in fact, sometimes, the forces that make things like C++ less valuable actually clear the way for things like distributed systems to b…
>Don't specialize in things that depreciate as rapidly as programming languages
C has been around since 1972 and is just as relevant as ever even as the popularity of C++ wanes. Python has been around since 1991 and is growing in popularity.
There is a trick to figuring out which technologies will stick around for the long haul, and it is one which most developers don't even think to try and hone.
My career advice would not be to not specialize in programming languages but to learn to distinguish programming trends from programming fashions and invest (with training/picking the right job, etc.) accordingly.
I doubt there is going to be much call for people with experience in Mongo in 5-7 years' time, for instance, but Postgres? Hell yeah. I predict increased demand for F#, too, but not so much for, say, Java (even though it won't go away).
Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)
#46Or plan C. For younger engineers start thinking about financial independence. Software Engineers enjoy a high starting salary and an even higher mid career salary so it is entirely possible to achieve financial independence in your 30s-40s with a frugal lifestyle and smart investing.
Woah buddy, don't reveal all of the secrets! You're taking the competitive edge away from those of us that had to learn the hard way
Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)
#47I see no one else has mentioned another, even more obvious solution. Retire.
With the sky-high salaries it is possible to earn as a software engineer, it should be straightforward (not easy, but still straightforward nonetheless), to save enough to retire at the age of 40. After which, you can spend your remaining time as you see fit, working on personal projects or any other hobby that suits your fancy.
This is the route I am taking.
Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)
#48[deleted]
Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)
#49I think it depends a lot on the industry, a young SF based Rails / Django / based startup? I hardly see them hiring a 40 years old with kids that will ask for a salary higher than the CEO. A front end UI developer with knowledge of the latest Ember / Anguler / React / whatever they come up with next front-end tech? Perhaps they are more likely to find a fresh graduate (or just a self taught hacker who just rocks at H…
> But in big companies (Amazon, Google, Twitter) in enterprise software companies, banks, medical tech, finance, I think it's not that uncommon to find 40 year old developers.
I think there's a bit of survivor bias. More interesting are the stories of someone who's not at one of those large or old-school companies. There's a bunch of skills (MFC, Flash, microcontrollers) that used to define 95% of someone's job, and are no longer relevant.
Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
"B) Are overly emotional and they all take things way too seriously." This can be a positive. My experience with 40+ year olds is that they tend to sacrifice user experience/security for what they know. "Our customers won't care if they have to use Internet Explorer with ActiveX as long as it gets the job done." My point is that an experienced programmer who is not up to date can be as detrimental an arrogant 20 year…
"My experience with 40+ year olds is that they tend to sacrifice user experience/security for what they know." I'm sure there are some people who don't expand, though I am in my 40s and am constantly pressing for the best UX possible for customers. I've suffered enough with bad UX, I won't go along with inflicting that on anyone no matter how challenging it might be to fix. On the other hand I am (almost) always grat…
"A hit to the pride is nothing compared to the pain of shipping something broken."
Well said. This should be the golden rule of development. I feel that too often we (both young and old) don't ask questions because we fear the repercussions of appearing ignorant.