The Trader Who Donates Half His Pay • Hacker News Board

Re: The Trader Who Donates Half His Pay

#141

Post by tomjen3 » Mon, Apr 06, 2015, 7:03 PM UTC

rry wrote: post #88

tomjen3 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>E.g. you'd have to be crazily skeptical to suggest that the programs recommended by GiveWell aren't of positive expected value; Their top charity for a long time was a mosquito net distribution agency. It turned out that the mosquito nets were used as fishing nets instead and, since they were treated with insecticide, polluted the local lakes.

It turns out that the nets in question came from net distributors with shoddy follow-up practices; GiveWell suggested Against Malaria instead of other distributors in part because they saw this issue years ago. http://blog.givewell.org/2015/02/05/putting-the-problem-of-b... https://www.againstmalaria.com/NewsItem.aspx?newsitem=Net-us...

Great find.

To me there are two issues at stake: taking their 90% claim at face value that may very well still leave them a very effective charity.

I am more concerned for the fishing stock. Assume 5% chooses to use their nets to fish with - is the this enough to have a material impact on fishing stocks? Will this effect the community to the point that the rest also have to use these nets to catch enough fish? Even if not, what is the effect of the insecticide?

Your articles seem to be really convincing with usages rate, but unfortunately rather handwavingly with the insecticide.

Re: The Trader Who Donates Half His Pay

#142

Post by learnstats2 » Mon, Apr 06, 2015, 7:04 PM UTC

wanderingstan wrote: post #134

Tenhundfeld wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not trying to make this political, but I sometimes wonder how much of our charitable exceptionalism is related to the US having a weaker social safety net than many industrialized countries. Whereas an American might donate to a food bank, homeless shelter, disaster relief, etc., a European might consider those activities the proper role of government and expect their (higher) taxes to go towards remedying the si…

I would second this interpretation. When I lived in Germany I wanted to do some volunteer work and read up on the possibilities. A local explained to me, "Offering to volunteer at the library or a school sounds as strange to a German as someone in the US offering to volunteer with street sweeping, or with the IRS. That's the job of the government. That's what taxes are for."

Someone volunteering at a library can be seen as a rich person taking away a paid job opportunity for a poor person.

Re: The Trader Who Donates Half His Pay

#143

Post by cbr » Mon, Apr 06, 2015, 7:05 PM UTC

scottjad wrote: post #62

willmacaskill wrote: post #21

Matt is a friend of mine, and someone who got career advice from what ultimately became 80,000 Hours, a startup non-profit I cofounded. I'm really happy to see the positive response on here; we've advised a lot of people to 'earn to give' and some people... let's say they aren't that happy about the idea that working in trading can be an ethical career. Anyone, if anyone feels inspired by the story and thinks they mi…

Are there any good techniques for a programmer/small business owner to be able to deduct charitable contributions more than 50% of one's adjusted gross income? > From http://www.irs.gov/Charities-&-Non-Profits/Charitable-Organi... Generally, you may deduct up to 50 percent of your adjusted gross income, but 20 percent and 30 percent limitations apply in some cases.

Looking at http://www.irs.gov/publications/p542/ar02.html I see:

    Cash contributions:  A corporation must maintain a record
    of any contribution of cash, check, or other monetary
    contribution, regardless of the amount. The record can be
    a bank record, receipt, letter, or other written
    communication from the donee indicating the name of the
    organization, the date of the contribution, and the amount
    of the contribution. Keep the record of the contribution
    with the other corporate records. Do not attach the records
    to the corporation's return. For more information on cash
    contributions, see Publication 526.

So it looks like your small business could make the donation, which would then not be taxed. But I don't really know, you probably should ask a tax lawyer.

Re: The Trader Who Donates Half His Pay

#144

Post by fobcat » Mon, Apr 06, 2015, 7:10 PM UTC

"What is the moral code of altruism? The basic principle of altruism is that man has no right to exist for his own sake, that service to others is the only justification of his existence, and that self-sacrifice is his highest moral duty, virtue and value.

Do not confuse altruism with kindness, good will or respect for the rights of others. These are not primaries, but consequences, which, in fact, altruism makes impossible. The irreducible primary of altruism, the basic absolute, is self-sacrifice—which means; self-immolation, self-abnegation, self-denial, self-destruction—which means: the self as a standard of evil, the selfless as a standard of the good.

Do not hide behind such superficialities as whether you should or should not give a dime to a beggar. That is not the issue. The issue is whether you do or do not have the right to exist without giving him that dime. The issue is whether you must keep buying your life, dime by dime, from any beggar who might choose to approach you. The issue is whether the need of others is the first mortgage on your life and the moral purpose of your existence. The issue is whether man is to be regarded as a sacrificial animal. Any man of self-esteem will answer: “No.” Altruism says: “Yes.”"

-Ayn Rand

Re: The Trader Who Donates Half His Pay

#145

Post by jayhuang » Mon, Apr 06, 2015, 7:12 PM UTC

> Sure enough, he says that in 2013 he donated more than $100,000, roughly half his pretax income.

This is pretty impressive to me. Many will say "well, if half of it is 100k, he still has at least 100k", except this is pretax, meaning he keeps less than 100k; besides, before saying it's not a big deal, how much are you contributing?

I personally donate 40% of my post tax income anonymously to various initiatives/organizations, which means even less pretax, but that's what I can afford without jeopardizing my family's well being.

It doesn't have to be monetary, but a little bit of help goes a long way. I'm glad there are people who do whatever they can to help out with the less fortunate.

Re: The Trader Who Donates Half His Pay

#146

Post by patcon » Mon, Apr 06, 2015, 7:14 PM UTC

jefftk wrote: post #138

jtbigwoo wrote: post #37

I talked about this on HN a few years ago, but my friends and I planned to be this guy. In college we talked about all the money we'd make and how much we'd be able to donate. We all had a job offers for $32 - 42k/year. That was amazing! We were living on less than $1k/month in college. We had plans to give away 20%, 30%, or 50% of our income. We would barely even notice. Some of us even managed to do it for a few ye…

My wife and I are also trying to do this, and I suspect a big part of why we've been able to stick to it is the growing effective altruism community. We commit to donating 50%, post our income and donations publicly [1], and we know people would hold us accountable if we started backsliding. Still, 20 years is much longer than I have experience for, so I definitely respect people like you who have been working at thi…

Yay! Thank you! As someone currently choosing to live very minimally and instead donate as much time as possible to the projects I believe in, I really am grateful to those similarly-minded people like yourselves working from the other end of the lifestyle spectrum :)

Re: The Trader Who Donates Half His Pay

#147

Post by caseysoftware » Mon, Apr 06, 2015, 7:16 PM UTC

Tenhundfeld wrote: post #128

hkmurakami wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only is 5% of one's income a rather high number, even the average amount that people give in the United States is far higher than the corresponding amount in other countries (ex: Japan). It may be the country's Christian leanings that contribute to this, but to be charitable is seen as a virtue and absolute good in this society. This is not necessarily the case in other societies.

I'm not trying to make this political, but I sometimes wonder how much of our charitable exceptionalism is related to the US having a weaker social safety net than many industrialized countries. Whereas an American might donate to a food bank, homeless shelter, disaster relief, etc., a European might consider those activities the proper role of government and expect their (higher) taxes to go towards remedying the si…

This tends to break out along political lines.

Christians, people who lean right, etc tend to give to social welfare organizations like the Salvation Army, Goodwill, foodbanks, etc. Basically groups that help out individuals.

Atheists, people who lean left, etc tend to give to artistic or societal organizations like a symphony, Greenpeace, etc.

I think the reasoning for this is simple. People on the right believe it is up to individuals to solve these problems and don't want the government involved. People on the left believe it is the government's role to solve these problems so they address their interests elsewhere.

Re: The Trader Who Donates Half His Pay

#148

Post by Mickydtron » Mon, Apr 06, 2015, 7:18 PM UTC

cmdrfred wrote: post #70

jtbigwoo wrote: post #37

I talked about this on HN a few years ago, but my friends and I planned to be this guy. In college we talked about all the money we'd make and how much we'd be able to donate. We all had a job offers for $32 - 42k/year. That was amazing! We were living on less than $1k/month in college. We had plans to give away 20%, 30%, or 50% of our income. We would barely even notice. Some of us even managed to do it for a few ye…

I completely agree. It seems to me that this is a problem of nationalism more than anything. In the United States we give many people many thousands of dollars a year in benefits, most for legitimate reasons. That said, If your end goal was the biggest net cut in human suffering wouldn't you get much bigger bang for your buck in the third world? I make exactly the low end of your range there and yet the government ta…

It would certainly be great if tax money were used more effectively (for whatever value of effectiveness). Causing that to be the case, though, is most likely out of reach for most of us. We can really only look at the best thing that we can do, rather than the best thing that someone else could do. Sometimes the best we can do doesn't involve being able to give to charities in the present.

Re: The Trader Who Donates Half His Pay

#149

Post by willmacaskill » Mon, Apr 06, 2015, 7:27 PM UTC

jcarpio wrote: post #112

willmacaskill wrote: post #21

Matt is a friend of mine, and someone who got career advice from what ultimately became 80,000 Hours, a startup non-profit I cofounded. I'm really happy to see the positive response on here; we've advised a lot of people to 'earn to give' and some people... let's say they aren't that happy about the idea that working in trading can be an ethical career. Anyone, if anyone feels inspired by the story and thinks they mi…

Ah, you wrote the piece: http://qz.com/57254/to-save-the-world-dont-get-a-job-at-a-ch... What did you think of Brook Allen's response: http://qz.com/57807/dont-come-to-wall-street-for-the-money-e... His point was that the actual making of money might actually cause more harm (fraud, etc) than the good your donations would do. I don't agree; objectively weighing the harm with the benefits is possible, as other comment…

I and 80,000 Hours take really seriously the harm you might do through your work. I'd feel very uncomfortable to say the least to recommend that someone work in Big Tobacco in order to earn to give.

I don't think of finance like I think of big tobacco though, and the criticisms I hear of finance tend to fall into one of two camps (i) lumping all of finance into one category; (ii) not really understanding what finance does. There are some areas of finance that are morally dubious (creating ever-more-arcane financial instruments that people don't understand). And I'm sympathetic in general to the idea that a lot of finance is rent-seeking, in which case you want regulation to cut down on that. But you don't have to go into dodgy areas of finance. Matt primarily takes advantage of arbitrage opportunities; it's hard to see how that is fucking over the world.

And even on the Big Tobacco front: if you could go in and substantially change their policies for the better (even if you couldn't make them any way close to perfect), I'd think of that as a really honorable thing to do. The same goes in finance. If you do find yourself in a really dodgy situation, you can always be a whistleblower, and potentially do a lot of good that way.

Re: The Trader Who Donates Half His Pay

#150

Post by Veedrac » Mon, Apr 06, 2015, 7:30 PM UTC

caseysoftware wrote: post #147

Tenhundfeld wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not trying to make this political, but I sometimes wonder how much of our charitable exceptionalism is related to the US having a weaker social safety net than many industrialized countries. Whereas an American might donate to a food bank, homeless shelter, disaster relief, etc., a European might consider those activities the proper role of government and expect their (higher) taxes to go towards remedying the si…

This tends to break out along political lines. Christians, people who lean right, etc tend to give to social welfare organizations like the Salvation Army, Goodwill, foodbanks, etc. Basically groups that help out individuals. Atheists, people who lean left, etc tend to give to artistic or societal organizations like a symphony, Greenpeace, etc. I think the reasoning for this is simple. People on the right believe it…

D'you have a source?