The Trader Who Donates Half His Pay • Hacker News Board

Re: The Trader Who Donates Half His Pay

#21

Post by willmacaskill » Mon, Apr 06, 2015, 2:57 PM UTC

Matt is a friend of mine, and someone who got career advice from what ultimately became 80,000 Hours, a startup non-profit I cofounded. I'm really happy to see the positive response on here; we've advised a lot of people to 'earn to give' and some people... let's say they aren't that happy about the idea that working in trading can be an ethical career.

Anyone, if anyone feels inspired by the story and thinks they might want to do something similar, I'm always happy to provide advice (you can get my contact details on my website). Not just through finance; there are a ton of software engineers and entrepreneurs in the effective altruism community, and it's really a place where everyone's trying to help each other be more successful - because we'll all do more good that way. If you think you might want to get involved, or find out more, there's a pretty active facebook group where you can introduce yourself. https://www.facebook.com/groups/effective.altruists/?ref=br_...

Happy also to take any questions on here.

Re: The Trader Who Donates Half His Pay

#22

Post by Lawtonfogle » Mon, Apr 06, 2015, 2:58 PM UTC

jrlocke wrote: post #6

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I've always felt it selfish when people of means partake in 'aid trips' over sending money to an appropriate organization. If you care to help, leverage your abilities efficiently; make the money doing what you're best at, and let others administer the aid.

It is less selfish that not helping at all. To criticize those who help inefficiently more than those who don't help at all enforces the notion that it is better to not help at all.

Re: The Trader Who Donates Half His Pay

#23

Post by mrspeaker » Mon, Apr 06, 2015, 2:58 PM UTC

vinay427 wrote: post #9

jrlocke wrote: post #6

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I've always felt it selfish when people of means partake in 'aid trips' over sending money to an appropriate organization. If you care to help, leverage your abilities efficiently; make the money doing what you're best at, and let others administer the aid.

That's certainly a logical opinion, and I agree that efficiency is key. However, I think it's also important to keep in mind the personal value of traveling on aid trips, which allow for an improved understanding of the need that lies. Perhaps this encourages potential donors to increase the frequency and quantity of their contributions.

Also, it maybe efficient in turning dollars to aid, but nobody at the "rich trader bar" wants to hear a story about someone donating money... that's just a way to reduce taxable income. An engaging personal story about travel and experiences is much more likely to have an impact on others.

Re: The Trader Who Donates Half His Pay

#24

Post by bobcostas55 » Mon, Apr 06, 2015, 3:01 PM UTC

jrlocke wrote: post #6

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I've always felt it selfish when people of means partake in 'aid trips' over sending money to an appropriate organization. If you care to help, leverage your abilities efficiently; make the money doing what you're best at, and let others administer the aid.

Empirically speaking, aid is almost completely useless[0], no matter who administers it. So whether he gives it all to the "appropriate organization" or "wastes" some of it on an aid trip is ultimately irrelevant.

[0] Easterly's book is great if you're interested in the stats: http://www.amazon.com/The-Elusive-Quest-Growth-Misadventures...

Re: The Trader Who Donates Half His Pay

#25

Post by willmacaskill » Mon, Apr 06, 2015, 3:03 PM UTC

jrlocke wrote: post #6

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I've always felt it selfish when people of means partake in 'aid trips' over sending money to an appropriate organization. If you care to help, leverage your abilities efficiently; make the money doing what you're best at, and let others administer the aid.

What I find most amazing is when bright Ivy League graduates go and do manual labour, like building a school, in a poor country with massive unemployment. It's not exactly playing to comparative advantage.

Re: The Trader Who Donates Half His Pay

#26

Post by susi22 » Mon, Apr 06, 2015, 3:03 PM UTC

This article has a few links but REALLY is lacking this one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giving_What_We_Can https://www.givingwhatwecan.org/

And interesting bunch of people where you pledge to donate X% of your pre-tax income to charity for life. The founder, Toby Ord capped his income to 18,000 British Pounds:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toby_Ord

Re: The Trader Who Donates Half His Pay

#27

Post by smeyer » Mon, Apr 06, 2015, 3:05 PM UTC

iamfbpt wrote: post #10

We all almost do through taxes. He goes further and donates 50% more from the remaining money.

He's probably taking the tax deductions for the donations, so it's not the same as donating an additional 50% "from the remaining money" (as some of it comes out of what would have been taxes). I didn't see it explicitly one way or the other in the article, though, so he could be donating 50% while still paying taxes on the full 100%.

Re: The Trader Who Donates Half His Pay

#28

Post by Symmetry » Mon, Apr 06, 2015, 3:07 PM UTC

Someone1234 wrote: post #19

vinay427 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's certainly a logical opinion, and I agree that efficiency is key. However, I think it's also important to keep in mind the personal value of traveling on aid trips, which allow for an improved understanding of the need that lies. Perhaps this encourages potential donors to increase the frequency and quantity of their contributions.

I'd liken it to the classic criticism: "charities spend too much money on advertising!" But how do charities get donations without advertising? How do they let people know why they need the money and encourage them to donate? At some point, yes, a charity can spend too much of its donations on advertising, but advertising in general is a necessary evil. Same with this. The charities might take in less overall if they…

One can criticizing people for taking the trips isn't the same as criticizing charities for offering them.

Re: The Trader Who Donates Half His Pay

#29

Post by huac » Mon, Apr 06, 2015, 3:07 PM UTC

The money he earns has to come from somewhere - what benefits a hedge fund is not likely to benefit the 'disposable populations' [for lack of a better term] that one of the fund's traders is supporting. In other words, if your hedge fund makes money by betting against the 3rd World, then half of your salary is only going to go so far for karmic rebalancing.

Re: The Trader Who Donates Half His Pay

#30

Post by icebraining » Mon, Apr 06, 2015, 3:07 PM UTC

bobcostas55 wrote: post #24

jrlocke wrote: post #6

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I've always felt it selfish when people of means partake in 'aid trips' over sending money to an appropriate organization. If you care to help, leverage your abilities efficiently; make the money doing what you're best at, and let others administer the aid.

Empirically speaking, aid is almost completely useless[0], no matter who administers it. So whether he gives it all to the "appropriate organization" or "wastes" some of it on an aid trip is ultimately irrelevant. [0] Easterly's book is great if you're interested in the stats: http://www.amazon.com/The-Elusive-Quest-Growth-Misadventures...

As an introduction, here's an episode of Econtalk with the author: http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2008/02/easterly_on_gro.htm...