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Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn

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Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn

#111

Post by aceperry »

teammatters wrote: post #20

Why is Edward Snowden a hero? He divulged sensitive U.S. documents and information that now bad actors use to exploit/harm the US. Further, he knew what he was doing was against the law and ran as far away as he could to avoid facing the consequences(Bradley, now Chelsea Manning as far as I know didnt run like a coward). Now he's a pawn between Russia and US relations. The information he divulged that we are being wa…

He's more controversial than exalted. Snowden did an interesting interview last weekend with the comedian John Oliver which showed the public's perception of Snowden and the information he revealed. A lot of people aren't aware of him or not very familiar with what he did. But given the types of information collected, people weren't too happy about it when they learned what could be collected.

Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn

#112

Post by pharke »

rosser wrote: post #86
rglover wrote: post #35

Seeing them cover this thing up is a hideous moment in our history: https://vine.co/v/eBBvedaHtBz . Shameful that something so harmless is immediately covered up (quite literally) because it challenges the state. The U.S. is getting scarier by the day, folks.

So it would be shameful of me to cover up your political speech when it's inflicted upon my property without my permission? Look, I emphatically believe in what Snowden did (though I may have some quibbles with his methods, his reasons were exemplary). I don't think that justifies what amounts to glorified — if tastefully done, and in keeping with the aesthetics of the monument — vandalism. This is a war memorial . H…

They took due care to choose materials that would not harm the monument. Public monuments and property are there for the enjoyment and use of the public, if that usage does no harm it should be allowed. The placing of this bust pushes the limits of this usage but should still be considered fair use and free speech since the artists did no harm. Even though it will cost whatever the wages and rates for the equipment needed to move it will be, I would argue that this cost could be avoided in a freer country by sanctioning this type of protest so that the artists could come forward to remove it themselves (I'm sure they would have interest from galleries or individuals for this piece) or better yet there could be a popular vote on whether to keep it.

Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn

#113

Post by CalRobert »

jessaustin wrote: post #88
fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's amazing. Now if only the public works department could respond to potholes that quickly.

Maybe we could just start spraypainting Snowden's face in and around potholes? If it worked, the general public would know Snowden only as the pothole-fixing guy. No jury would ever convict! b^)

Actually, an approaching not entirely unlike that has been tried successfully in Russia.

http://www.thisiscolossal.com/2012/09/embarrassing-pothole-c...

Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn

#114

Post by Tiktaalik »

yodsanklai wrote: post #43
rglover wrote: post #35

Seeing them cover this thing up is a hideous moment in our history: https://vine.co/v/eBBvedaHtBz . Shameful that something so harmless is immediately covered up (quite literally) because it challenges the state. The U.S. is getting scarier by the day, folks.

> Shameful that something so harmless is immediately covered up (quite literally) because it challenges the state. Playing devil's advocate here, but would have they done differently with an other bust? maybe it's just forbidden to put a statue in a park without authorization.

Someone put up a naked devil statue in a Vancouver park. It was removed pretty briskly.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/petitions-call-for-...

Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn

#115

Post by ceejayoz »

rhino369 wrote: post #100
ceejayoz wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All the rest is completely legal. That's a bold assertion not borne out by the facts. Examples: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/judge-deals-nsa-defeat-bulk-p... http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/indepe...

I haven't read the Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board report so I can't comment other than to say it is merely a government policy board. The DOJ fully supports the NSA. But 15 Federal district court judges have approved the NSA actions as part of the FISA courts. That a single federal district court disagrees isn't a huge deal. The third party doctrine is very clear. Records about you do not carry a reasona…

> That a single federal district court disagrees isn't a huge deal.

Sure it is - that sort of disagreement makes it unsettled law, which is where SCOTUS steps in. Last year they (thankfully) ruled that cell phones can't be searched in most circumstances without a warrant, and I'd expect at least a few of the numerous suits that popped up in the wake of the Snowden leaks to wind their way to Court eventually.

Right now, large parts of the NSA's actions are of disputed legality. We'll see what the justices say.

Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn

#116

Post by slg »

hristov wrote: post #87
hullo wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you'd done the same thing with a bust of your mother 10 years ago, they'd have covered it up as well. Try the same thing (with Snowden, or your mother) in France or China, and see what happens. Just because they parks department is doing their job doesn't mean democracy is ebbing.

I don't think so. If it is something unauthorized they probably would have removed it in due time. I.e., they would have taken a couple of days to hire professionals to do it. Now they immediately cover it up so that no-one can see it while they arrange for its removal. Why? Obviously they do not want anyone to look at it before it is removed. But why not? It is certainly not offensive in any way. It may prove to be…

I think you are looking at the situation from our little tech bubble. Regardless of all of our opinions on the situation, it is still very political. This guy is actively wanted by our government for possible treason charges. If you believe those charges have merit, then erecting a statue in his honor could easily be classified as offensive.

This is part of the problem with our side of the debate. We take it as a forgone conclusion that everyone agrees that Snowden is morally right and that the government is morally wrong. We need to do a better job of convincing the general public why issues like this are important. Erecting a statue of Snowden doesn't do anything besides antagonizing both sides of the debate.

EDIT: As this post currently stands at -2 karma, I have to say I am a little disappointed in HN. This isn't Reddit, we shouldn't have brigades of people downvoting comments that bring up gray areas in this debate. I don't think I said anything unreasonable in this comment. However if you do and downvote me, the least you could do is comment about how I am off base.

Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn

#117

Post by Animats »

The Wall Street Bull is also a piece of guerrilla art in New York City. That huge bronze was made by Arturo Di Modica and installed by him in 1989. It was once towed away to an impound lot, but enough people complained that it was moved to its present location.

Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn

#118

Post by MaysonL »

Estragon wrote: post #53
jronald wrote: post #40

Coopting memorials this way bothers me, especially in the case where the person being idealized would have been against it. I do appreciate the relevancy of the memorial being used. Using the location and its history as a running point for a demonstration / gathering would have been more impactful as well as being respectful to the purpose of the memorial.

I'm not sure Snowden would be against it, if it stood a good chance of getting people talking about the upcoming reauthorization of the Patriot Act on June 1.

Hell yeah he would be for it, he was willing to stoop to an extended penis joke in his interview with John Oliver: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEVlyP4_11M

Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn

#119

Post by genericuser »

Someone1234 wrote: post #95
fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's amazing. Now if only the public works department could respond to potholes that quickly.

That is an interesting point. People here are saying (paraphrasing) "they'd take down any busk that wasn't authorised" and while I believe that to be true, it ignores the fact of just how QUICKLY this one got taken down. Less than six hours? How long does other graffiti take to be removed, days, weeks, months?

I think the speed graffiti, bust, or other such expression is removed is going to be more or less relative to the amount of attention something draws / is expected to draw. Or at least I heard that is how wheels go about getting oil.

Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn

#120

Post by shkkmo »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #24
majke wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sir. Edward does not expose anything. It's the journalists that choose the material. He made it very explicit from the start. > You have to be naive to think the Russians are harboring him Can you please provide a source? The quality of this comment is something I'd expect from a 50 cent army. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_brigades [EDIT] Softened language.

>Are you perhaps working for the US equivalent of 50 cent army? Didn't we just hear about a new HN policy to limit trolling, snotty comments, and low information negativity like this? This snide aside here is a good test case to see if these new policies have any teeth. I would expect this comment deleted by the mods. Accusing other members of being paid-for shills merely because they disagree with you is trolling an…

Yet, the parent comment is the one that gets flagged...what?

I fall on the 'Snowden is a hero' side of the fence, but I don't see what got that comment flagged.

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