The Trader Who Donates Half His Pay • Hacker News Board

Re: The Trader Who Donates Half His Pay

#71

Post by danielweber » Mon, Apr 06, 2015, 4:04 PM UTC

Someone1234 wrote: post #19

vinay427 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's certainly a logical opinion, and I agree that efficiency is key. However, I think it's also important to keep in mind the personal value of traveling on aid trips, which allow for an improved understanding of the need that lies. Perhaps this encourages potential donors to increase the frequency and quantity of their contributions.

I'd liken it to the classic criticism: "charities spend too much money on advertising!" But how do charities get donations without advertising? How do they let people know why they need the money and encourage them to donate? At some point, yes, a charity can spend too much of its donations on advertising, but advertising in general is a necessary evil. Same with this. The charities might take in less overall if they…

Lots of charities are entirely advertising and exist entirely so that the charity can keep on employing the people it employs.

This isn't 100% useless, as it causes economic activity, but it's done under the lie that non-profits are de facto good things.

This is the challenging thing about charities. If I want to evaluate the person selling me socks or smart phones, I look at the good they offer and decide if it is worth $N. If it is, I make the trade. If not, I don't.

But with charities, you have to figure out "is the marginal change the charity will do with $5 worth me having five dollars less?" And that's incredibly hard to figure out. Even the charity itself, assuming it even wants to know, can have a hard time figuring out the net difference of five dollars.

Which is the whole point of effective altruism.

Re: The Trader Who Donates Half His Pay

#72

Post by JacobLBryan » Mon, Apr 06, 2015, 4:04 PM UTC

Lawtonfogle wrote: post #22

jrlocke wrote: post #6

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I've always felt it selfish when people of means partake in 'aid trips' over sending money to an appropriate organization. If you care to help, leverage your abilities efficiently; make the money doing what you're best at, and let others administer the aid.

It is less selfish that not helping at all. To criticize those who help inefficiently more than those who don't help at all enforces the notion that it is better to not help at all.

I don't think of it as a criticism, moreso as an opportunity that people may not have fully considered. If you ask most people who do give to charity why they do it they'll usually say that they want to make a difference or alleviate suffering. As long as they aren't overly set in their ways they should be happy to hear about more effective giving opportunities, or maybe even to consider the entire question in a new framework that helps them better accomplish their stated goals.

Re: The Trader Who Donates Half His Pay

#73

Post by Shivetya » Mon, Apr 06, 2015, 4:09 PM UTC

jtbigwoo wrote: post #37

I talked about this on HN a few years ago, but my friends and I planned to be this guy. In college we talked about all the money we'd make and how much we'd be able to donate. We all had a job offers for $32 - 42k/year. That was amazing! We were living on less than $1k/month in college. We had plans to give away 20%, 30%, or 50% of our income. We would barely even notice. Some of us even managed to do it for a few ye…

still you can start out simple and build from that. I give to two charities, Children's Healthcare of Atlanta and St. Vincents. I started out with a good amount per month automatically taken from my account.

I became acclimated to that "bill" much as one does their car payment or home payment. It is in the range of a small car payment per month now and I only chide myself for not boosting it more. The idea is to make it a routine expense so that you don't consider it a burden. The danger is forgetting to raise it or give to other good charities thinking you have done your part.

I do not mind people who do not give, I only mind the ones who speak up at charity drives at work with any number of excuses or complaints. It is not hard to find a charity to give money too, its hard to give

Re: The Trader Who Donates Half His Pay

#74

Post by morninj » Mon, Apr 06, 2015, 4:09 PM UTC

jimbokun wrote: post #54

jtbigwoo wrote: post #37

I talked about this on HN a few years ago, but my friends and I planned to be this guy. In college we talked about all the money we'd make and how much we'd be able to donate. We all had a job offers for $32 - 42k/year. That was amazing! We were living on less than $1k/month in college. We had plans to give away 20%, 30%, or 50% of our income. We would barely even notice. Some of us even managed to do it for a few ye…

The muscles you use for giving are the same muscles you use to save or pay down debt. Know what your expenses are and how much you are spending. Know which of the things you spend money for are really important to you, and what you wouldn't actually miss that much. Know how to keep your spending in check as your income grows, not just increasing spending because the money is there. People tend to react emotionally to…

> The muscles you use for giving are the same muscles you use to save or pay down debt.

Citation needed.

Re: The Trader Who Donates Half His Pay

#75

Post by zz1 » Mon, Apr 06, 2015, 4:11 PM UTC

jimbokun wrote: post #60

willmacaskill wrote: post #21

Matt is a friend of mine, and someone who got career advice from what ultimately became 80,000 Hours, a startup non-profit I cofounded. I'm really happy to see the positive response on here; we've advised a lot of people to 'earn to give' and some people... let's say they aren't that happy about the idea that working in trading can be an ethical career. Anyone, if anyone feels inspired by the story and thinks they mi…

"... let's say they aren't that happy about the idea that working in trading can be an ethical career." Well, it's at least worth having a discussion about. If you are in a career where you honestly think damage is being done by your activities, you need to weigh that against whatever good is being done with the money you earn and give away. What about the traders involved in the near-collapse of the global economy i…

> If you are in a career where you honestly think damage is being done by your activities, you need to weigh that against whatever good is being done with the money you earn and give away.

Or, better, change job.

Re: The Trader Who Donates Half His Pay

#76

Post by JacobLBryan » Mon, Apr 06, 2015, 4:12 PM UTC

acadien wrote: post #20

If only our government taxed people appropriately and had a system for foreign aid that was well studied and effective. Is whats proposed in this article as effective or better than the alternative? I have no idea but it certainly seems less organized.

It probably does lose out on some coordination efficiency that a hypothetical world government could achieve, but in today's world governments have a mandate to care for their own citizens before others, which means that first world governments miss out on the incredibly cheap interventions in the developing world. For example, the NHS in Britain will spend as much as £30,000 to provide a QALY (Quality Adjusted Life Year), when a similar year of life in the developing world can be provided for £50 at a conservative estimate.

Re: The Trader Who Donates Half His Pay

#77

Post by testguy34 » Mon, Apr 06, 2015, 4:15 PM UTC

goodJobWalrus wrote: post #39

bobcostas55 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Empirically speaking, aid is almost completely useless[0], no matter who administers it. So whether he gives it all to the "appropriate organization" or "wastes" some of it on an aid trip is ultimately irrelevant. [0] Easterly's book is great if you're interested in the stats: http://www.amazon.com/The-Elusive-Quest-Growth-Misadventures...

Function of aid is not to cause economic growth. Function of aid is to have a child not die of malaria.

The ciriticism is that malaria is just a symptom of the larger problem of a lack of economic growth and development. Aid can save a child from malaria, but it will never solve the underlying problem.

Re: The Trader Who Donates Half His Pay

#78

Post by bch » Mon, Apr 06, 2015, 4:22 PM UTC

morninj wrote: post #74

jimbokun wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The muscles you use for giving are the same muscles you use to save or pay down debt. Know what your expenses are and how much you are spending. Know which of the things you spend money for are really important to you, and what you wouldn't actually miss that much. Know how to keep your spending in check as your income grows, not just increasing spending because the money is there. People tend to react emotionally to…

> The muscles you use for giving are the same muscles you use to save or pay down debt. Citation needed.

I think all he's saying is that if you get in the habit of living on less $ (because you're giving 20, 30, 40, 50% away to others), if you decide to give it to _yourself_ to paydown debt, or save for retirement, you're already used to living on "50% income", so it may not be as difficult as for soemone who hasn't done this exercise.

Edit: sloppy typing

Re: The Trader Who Donates Half His Pay

#79

Post by ernestipark » Mon, Apr 06, 2015, 4:27 PM UTC

For those interested, one way to build this charitable muscle and lifestyle is to start a charitable trust (at least in the US). It's not just for the ultra wealthy. You can start any old investment account and commit to funding it regularly say $20/month or 1% of your salary to start. Then when you hit $5k or more you can transfer those funds to a trust you create with say Fidelity or Vanguard ($25k minimum). You can then disburse these funds from the trust to the charitable org of your choice.

The nice thing about this option is you can save now without having to decide where to give. You can take time to research and make an educated informed decision on where to give. You also get the dual tax benefit of not getting taxed on these capital gains and the deduction of a donation if you itemize.

It's very cool to see people giving critical thought on how they give. But sometimes it can be intimidating to start. Just starting with anything is better than nothing and you can build from there. You don't have to give 50% like this guy. Building it into your lifestyle and budgeting is a slow and gradual process.

Re: The Trader Who Donates Half His Pay

#80

Post by jtbigwoo » Mon, Apr 06, 2015, 4:28 PM UTC

Shivetya wrote: post #73

jtbigwoo wrote: post #37

I talked about this on HN a few years ago, but my friends and I planned to be this guy. In college we talked about all the money we'd make and how much we'd be able to donate. We all had a job offers for $32 - 42k/year. That was amazing! We were living on less than $1k/month in college. We had plans to give away 20%, 30%, or 50% of our income. We would barely even notice. Some of us even managed to do it for a few ye…

still you can start out simple and build from that. I give to two charities, Children's Healthcare of Atlanta and St. Vincents. I started out with a good amount per month automatically taken from my account. I became acclimated to that "bill" much as one does their car payment or home payment. It is in the range of a small car payment per month now and I only chide myself for not boosting it more. The idea is to make…

That's a good strategy. Anything you can do to reduce the willpower it takes to give is a good thing.