“Today we moved into our new Facebook building” • Hacker News Board

Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#401

Post by MCRed » Tue, Mar 31, 2015, 3:16 PM UTC

chronomex wrote: post #66

MCRed wrote: post #45

I will never work in an open office plan. It's one of the items on my "prima donna" list. Despite the name I'm pretty serious, and while some of this list represents things that others might not be able to avoid, or even agree with because they are personal preferences, all of the items are the result of bad experiences or missteps I've experienced directly at a job in the past. I know some may object to these. That'…

21. for a company that wants to piss-test you

Excellent point. That's there I just forgot to list it.

I did that once. Once. Then it went on the list. Over 20 years ago.

22. for a company with an employee handbook that is all about protecting and absolving the company while imposing an undue burden of petty rules on the employees, including interfering with things that are none of the companies business such as alcohol consumption outside of work.

Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#402

Post by MCRed » Tue, Mar 31, 2015, 3:17 PM UTC

jtkme wrote: post #316

MCRed wrote: post #45

I will never work in an open office plan. It's one of the items on my "prima donna" list. Despite the name I'm pretty serious, and while some of this list represents things that others might not be able to avoid, or even agree with because they are personal preferences, all of the items are the result of bad experiences or missteps I've experienced directly at a job in the past. I know some may object to these. That'…

Good tips. I wouldn't hire you.

See? It works!

Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#403

Post by MCRed » Tue, Mar 31, 2015, 3:19 PM UTC

oroup wrote: post #97

MCRed wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of this was fixed by working remote, and being a founder of the company. I'm CTO of a very small startup, and we're experimenting with an organizational structure based on the causes of this list and a bunch of other stuff-- found a CEO whose really all about the love- there is no other word for it. We're not hiring yet, unfortunately.

If you get there, I'll be interested to see your org get to 20+ people and if you can keep all your rules. No more than 2 mandatory meetings a year seems tough to me. The limits on flex time seem tough as well, especially for leaders. Sometimes your team is going to want to actually talk to you.

If the meetings are worthwhile, they don't need to be mandatory. Quarterly company review? Ok, make it good, and I'll be there. Mandatory is used to excuse bad meeting making. Mandatory safety meeting? Ok, that's one of your two.

Yeah, the rules are different for founders, etc. More meetings, more availability, etc.

Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#404

Post by MCRed » Tue, Mar 31, 2015, 3:20 PM UTC

bitL wrote: post #145

MCRed wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of this was fixed by working remote, and being a founder of the company. I'm CTO of a very small startup, and we're experimenting with an organizational structure based on the causes of this list and a bunch of other stuff-- found a CEO whose really all about the love- there is no other word for it. We're not hiring yet, unfortunately.

Why didn't you go the co-CEO route instead? From my experience CEO has a tendency at some point to dominate other CxOs for whatever reasons (usually business guys view tech as inferior).

That's sort of what our relationship is-- from my view-- but I believe that at some point someone has to make a decision. Some of them are coin flips, or can be changed before too long if they turn out to be mistakes. I don't want to spend time on a lot of stuff that's not about building the product.

The CEO is also the domain expert in this situation, and we have a great personality fit.

Ideally I think engineers should be CEOs. Engineers can learn business a lot easier than biz guys can learn engineering. But it's not always going to be the right choice.

Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#405

Post by MCRed » Tue, Mar 31, 2015, 3:35 PM UTC

CrLf wrote: post #328

MCRed wrote: post #45

I will never work in an open office plan. It's one of the items on my "prima donna" list. Despite the name I'm pretty serious, and while some of this list represents things that others might not be able to avoid, or even agree with because they are personal preferences, all of the items are the result of bad experiences or missteps I've experienced directly at a job in the past. I know some may object to these. That'…

I suggest you shorten your list just a bit. Then the interviewer can show you the way out much sooner. Although some of your "requirements" are perfectly reasonable, I would never hire you. Good engineering is all about compromise and working with reality. "where my development machine can't be a Mac"? Seriously?

Several people have said "I would never hire you"... but you see, that isn't an insult, that just shows the list is working. Every single item on this list is about respecting employees and the work. Every one of them is about making me more productive when working for you.

So yes, please don't hire me if you're just going to then turn around and wasted my time (by making me work on windows or Linux on the desktop, for instance.)

I understand compromise and working with reality-- and the reality is no company may be able to make all the points on this list. That's why it's facetiously called the "Prima Donna" list.

But if you're not interested in facilitating good engineering then I'm not interested in wasting time TRYING to work for you.

Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#406

Post by MCRed » Tue, Mar 31, 2015, 3:38 PM UTC

CrLf wrote: post #343

randomsearch wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "where my development machine can't be a Mac"? Seriously? I'd actually agree with this. You want to give your employees the best possible machine to work with -- machines are cheap compared to salaries. If he wants a Mac, I'd buy him a Mac.

On the face of it, that's true. In reality, it's not... Your work machine is not your personal computer. The best possible machine is anything that makes you more productive and reduces friction for whatever you happen to do at work. That may very well be a Mac, or may very well be something else. If you company gives you a Mac but everyone else uses Windows and Outlook, that will increase friction and make you less…

IF everybody else is using Windows, Outlook and Excel then the company is stuck in the 1990s and their other business practices (eg: emailing RTFs for specs instead of putting them in version control) are also going to be out of date.

But as someone who has used a Mac in an office full of people using Windows and Outlook, it didn't increase friction. And I was even using OS X.

Your perspective forgets that you can run Windows on a Mac. I said "Let me use a Mac", I didn't say I wouldn't dual boot into windows (though having to use windows all the time is a separate requirement.)

I put that down there because it is the machine that makes me more productive.

You're saying forcing me to use windows, which isn't even unix, makes me more productive simply because my pointy haired boss uses it?

And you call me "fixed-minded"?

Nope.

Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#407

Post by MCRed » Tue, Mar 31, 2015, 3:40 PM UTC

erobbins wrote: post #123

MCRed wrote: post #45

I will never work in an open office plan. It's one of the items on my "prima donna" list. Despite the name I'm pretty serious, and while some of this list represents things that others might not be able to avoid, or even agree with because they are personal preferences, all of the items are the result of bad experiences or missteps I've experienced directly at a job in the past. I know some may object to these. That'…

I actually like your list, except for 19/20 which I personally don't care about. I personally believe that benefits should be a la carte.. pick what you want, get cash for ones you don't want. The "free food" thing is a big one for me. I don't like 90% of the food offered, I'd rather just have the cash.

You make an excellent point on al la carte benefits. Most companies really put so little tiem/thought into these.

For instance, most 401k plans only let you invest in terrible expensive investments (like index funds. Fine as an option but these are not actually good investments for people who can manage their own money.)

Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#408

Post by fsk » Tue, Mar 31, 2015, 4:02 PM UTC

MCRed wrote: post #400

fsk wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why equity would be a dealbreaker for you. There is some $X where getting $X extra would make up for no equity (considering equity is usually worth $0). Instead of equity, you could ask to be paid $20k more, go to a casino, and bet it all on one spin of roulette at 36:1. If you win the first spin, let half of it ride on another 36:1 bet. That would give you a better payout distribution than is likely fro…

Your point is valid, but the reason for the equity is not about compensation, but about alignment of interests. If things do go really well, then I need skin in the game. But I also need to be treated like a part owner, not a disposable employee. The equity thing is about the mindset of the boss, more than compensation.

I thought that the mindset of a boss paying equity instead of salary is "Haha! Sucker!"

Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#409

Post by sukilot » Tue, Mar 31, 2015, 4:14 PM UTC

calinet6 wrote: post #359

JohnBooty wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When people see their teams working hard around them, they > have little excuse not to follow the suit. > In private offices... ...most people are actually fairly > weak against distractions generated from their own computer I think this is true. When left totally to my own with medium-term or long-term deadlines it's hard to resist the pull of distractions on the web. But that is also fairly easily mitigated with…

It's difficult for people to recognize that open offices exist for a reason, but they absolutely do. They are a systemic solution to communication, collaboration, and motivation problems. All three need different systemic solutions in a private office context, but those solutions would be more forced and less natural. The open floor plan is also a huge cultural boon for that reason. The types of systems that enable c…

How is the simplest cheapest emptiest thing a systematic solution to anything. It's starting to design a workspace, drawing the interior/exterior border, then getting an interruption and coming back an hour later and thinking you are done.

It would be excellent parody of the the hula hoop circle "you know, for kids" gag from that old movie.

Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#410

Post by sukilot » Tue, Mar 31, 2015, 4:14 PM UTC

calinet6 wrote: post #359

JohnBooty wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When people see their teams working hard around them, they > have little excuse not to follow the suit. > In private offices... ...most people are actually fairly > weak against distractions generated from their own computer I think this is true. When left totally to my own with medium-term or long-term deadlines it's hard to resist the pull of distractions on the web. But that is also fairly easily mitigated with…

It's difficult for people to recognize that open offices exist for a reason, but they absolutely do. They are a systemic solution to communication, collaboration, and motivation problems. All three need different systemic solutions in a private office context, but those solutions would be more forced and less natural. The open floor plan is also a huge cultural boon for that reason. The types of systems that enable c…

How is the simplest cheapest emptiest thing a systematic solution to anything. It's starting to design a workspace, drawing the interior/exterior border, then getting an interruption and coming back an hour later and thinking you are done.

It would be excellent parody of the the hula hoop circle "you know, for kids" gag from that old movie.