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Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

developers.facebook.com

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Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you go into detail about what features were lacking? For what it's worth, a lot comes down to what features the server admin has activated. I've heard many complaints about XMPP but this is the first I've heard someone mention lack of features as a problem with it.

Server-side chat logfiles that are distributed to all connecting clients? I've never looked into the protocol, but I'm pretty sure that one is lacking.

If you're talking about Multi-User Chats, then on entering a room the server should send previous messages (http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html#enter-history), with no requirements set in stone (except when the client specifies a maximum amoun to send).

When a client logs in, it is true that a server doesn't have to send messages back, but that's the goal of XEP-0313.

Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see why I can't use XML, JSON, MsgPack or YAML. Couldn't the parsing be a pluggable component? Just set a standard on how data is structured and let third-parties figure out how data is parsed.

And that would improve the XMPP adoption and experience by ... ? Are you saying mom and dad aren't using XMPP because the message is sent using XML based stanzas? Facebook is ditching XMPP because of the X? It doesn't matter?

As much as I can agree that XML doesn't prevent user adoption, it may very well prevent developer adoption; if developers are not willing to bother with XML or any part of the protocol, they may very well give up and develop for some other platform.

Yes, that may sound futile, but in the end the developers are the people who build everything. It is my strong belief that HTTP, IRC, SMTP and bittorrent (among others) have thrived because of their utter simplicity, to the point we're embarassed today because we've ended up with so much under-specified crap on top of them. Still, they deliver. As always "worse is better".

Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#203
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you just describe email? There are a couple of things that make email unattractive for chatting: 1) latency (seconds or minutes instead of sub-seconds), and 2) user habits of treating emails as something that can be responded later instead of NOW. I grew up with IRC, but I now prefer emails to chat. It makes you think a bit more before hitting "send", and so the signal/noise ratio is higher with emails.

Email fails in the following ways: 1. Email client have vastly different feature sets and capabilities. Most notably, the HTML support is very different from one browser to another. 5. The vast majority of email systems do not even support encryption of the message itself 7. Large file transfer via email is horrible and extremely limited 8. No random chat support 9. No group chat ( cc doesn't count as it lacks histor…

> Email client have vastly different feature sets and capabilities. Most notably, the HTML support is very different from one browser to another.

That's hardly an email issue, that's a client issue. The mail protocol doesn't care much about the content.

Also, you will find some people averse to using HTML email.

> The vast majority of email systems do not even support encryption of the message itself

Again, that's not part of the email protocol itself, and as far as email encryption goes PGP is pretty much the standard. The real issue here is whether to use the sucky PGP/inline or the proper PGP/mime

> No random chat support

You mean randomly send an email to someone, without being invited ? That's pretty much what spam is.

> No group chat ( cc doesn't count as it lacks history of the group chat )

I don't see why cc wouldn't count, when combined with the various In-Reply-To: and Refenrences: headers, you can build a very solid group chat history.

> Have you ever received emails seemingly full of gibberish? Utf8 not supported properly in majority of implementations. ( which imo requires getting and using a font that supports the codepoints )

Again, a client problem, but I'll agree that clients can lie on the actual encoding that is used in emails. Mandating UTF-8 would be such a heaven.

> No user index ( saying that you could have an address book also doesn't count; and that is a seperate thing which also there is no one spec that is used by all people using email )

I don't understand. Why couldn't a server index your emails and extract your contacts ?

> No real time messaging support.

Theoretically, you can (and should) run an MTA on your machine; you'd then receive messages in real time

> server polling

Polling sucks, don't do it. If you don't have an MTA on your machine, at least use IMAP IDLE. Disclaimer: I wrote this (https://github.com/rakoo/idlewatch) to automatically sync all my mails when there's something new.

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