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Things you should know about PHP 7

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Re: Things you should know about PHP 7

#61

Post by oneeyedpigeon »

darrelld wrote: post #39
oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also completely blank without javascript.

Why are you not running javascript? Is it a environment restriction, out of security concern or personal preference? Since tone can be tricky on the internet I'll just add that I am genuinely curious about this.

I was only doing so momentarily as a part of debugging the mobile issue. I'm fully aware that most people (intend to) run javascript most of the time, but I also think it's preferable that content doesn't introduce an unnecessary dependency on javascript. I haven't investigated this case in enough depth to determine if it's necessary or not, but the end result leads me to believe it shouldn't be.

Re: Things you should know about PHP 7

#62

Post by wvenable »

raphaelj wrote: post #7
babuskov wrote: post #3

TL;DR: 1. Scheduled to come out in Q4 2015 2. operator, see https://wiki.php.net/rfc/combined-comparison-operator 3. Return Type Declarations & Scalar Type Hints 4. Speed improvements (25-70%) 5. Yep, speed improvements are for real. You're welcome.

So 1 is not a feature, 4 & 5 are the same thing (and maybe a consequence of 3) while 2 can be remplaced by a single function. Seems like the only new feature are type hints. Looks like Hack has been rebranded as PHP 7.

There are tons of new features, this list is pretty pathetic. I'm not sure why the spaceship operator got top billing when there has been so many other great changes.

Re: Things you should know about PHP 7

#63

Post by snuxoll »

jkoudys wrote: post #17
richthegeek wrote: post #2

Good to see PHP slowly improving, although I haven't used it for years now. On a side note, does anyone know why Drupal 8 is apparently so absurdly slow? I know it's not entirely fair to compare against D7 as it's still technically "under development" but it just seems insane to take that much of a performance hit for nicer OOP semantics...

D8's a work in progress, and if there's one thing I wouldn't be too critical of a wip for, it's performance. Frankly I don't really see drupal's place in the world anymore. It's so absurdly config-heavy, which may have made sense a decade ago but not now. Everyone will just install composer, put laravel/symfony on there, and be off to the races. The era of giant pages of drupal-managed plugins is over, and replaced b…

Drupal 8 actually using a lot of Symfony2 components internally now, and you should be able to manage your modules with composer if you so choose.

I'm really excited for D8, no other CMS to date has been as easy to administer in my eyes, and now that they're dramatically revamping the module and theming stories I may even enjoy writing modules and themes once more.

Re: Things you should know about PHP 7

#64

Post by arenaninja »

itafroma wrote: post #42

Note this is just Zend's take on what's important in PHP 7: it's not a complete list. A more comprehensive list: - Dual-mode scalar type hints (weak by default, toggleable to strict via a per-file syntax) ( https://wiki.php.net/rfc/scalar_type_hints_v5 ) - Return type declarations ( https://wiki.php.net/rfc/return_types ) - operator ( https://wiki.php.net/rfc/combined-comparison-operator ) - Null coalesce operator (?…

OH man I want that Null coalesce operator so bad...

Re: Things you should know about PHP 7

#65

Post by arenaninja »

darrelld wrote: post #37

Being a PHP dev since the early 00's it's great to see the language moving forward with features and performance and seemingly less hate towards it from the developer community at large. For a while there seemed to be a "PHP-shaming" thing going around. If you did PHP you were sort of in an untouchable uncool class.

> If you did PHP you were sort of in an untouchable uncool class.

That's still around, even on Hacker News. Tons of comments in poor taste from posts about 3 months ago as I remember it

Re: Things you should know about PHP 7

#66

Post by issa »

jkoudys wrote: post #17
richthegeek wrote: post #2

Good to see PHP slowly improving, although I haven't used it for years now. On a side note, does anyone know why Drupal 8 is apparently so absurdly slow? I know it's not entirely fair to compare against D7 as it's still technically "under development" but it just seems insane to take that much of a performance hit for nicer OOP semantics...

D8's a work in progress, and if there's one thing I wouldn't be too critical of a wip for, it's performance. Frankly I don't really see drupal's place in the world anymore. It's so absurdly config-heavy, which may have made sense a decade ago but not now. Everyone will just install composer, put laravel/symfony on there, and be off to the races. The era of giant pages of drupal-managed plugins is over, and replaced b…

Drupal's place hasn't really changed much. It's for people who want more flexibility than Wordpress while having more out-of-the-box features than the frameworks you mention.

Re: Things you should know about PHP 7

#68

Post by jkoudys »

dabernathy89 wrote: post #46
jkoudys wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

D8's a work in progress, and if there's one thing I wouldn't be too critical of a wip for, it's performance. Frankly I don't really see drupal's place in the world anymore. It's so absurdly config-heavy, which may have made sense a decade ago but not now. Everyone will just install composer, put laravel/symfony on there, and be off to the races. The era of giant pages of drupal-managed plugins is over, and replaced b…

I'm a WordPress guy, so I am not a Drupal expert. But Laravel/Symfony and Drupal are targeting mostly different audiences (application developers vs website developers/website owners).

Laravel/symfony are just one component. It's the approach of organizing your site as packages, and properly namespacing and exposing well-documented class libraries of your own that's becoming the dominant approach even for websites. Even the concept of a 'website' as simply rendering pages is something fewer people need a custom install for - squarespace et al have the basic sites covered, and for anyone who needs a pretty specific feature there's plenty of other platforms: shopify (commerce), nationbuilder (nonprofits), etc.

Having worked with many PHP CMSes, the config for managing various drupal plugins is often far more complex to setup, maintain, and migrate than simply writing that feature in my own little class in concrete5, joomla, or even without a CMS. I get the appeal behind wordpress (even if I think it's implementation is complete garbage), because non-technical people can still setup and manage their plugins. Most of my clients who are/were on drupal, became my clients after they were inevitably crushed under a pile of drupal config.

Re: Things you should know about PHP 7

#69

Post by jkoudys »

snuxoll wrote: post #63
jkoudys wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

D8's a work in progress, and if there's one thing I wouldn't be too critical of a wip for, it's performance. Frankly I don't really see drupal's place in the world anymore. It's so absurdly config-heavy, which may have made sense a decade ago but not now. Everyone will just install composer, put laravel/symfony on there, and be off to the races. The era of giant pages of drupal-managed plugins is over, and replaced b…

Drupal 8 actually using a lot of Symfony2 components internally now, and you should be able to manage your modules with composer if you so choose. I'm really excited for D8, no other CMS to date has been as easy to administer in my eyes, and now that they're dramatically revamping the module and theming stories I may even enjoy writing modules and themes once more.

I know, and I think they're making the right decisions to make it the best drupal it can be. I was really excited about it 2.5 years ago.

My point is I think the fundamental idea of drupal is obsolete. If it can eke out a few more years of relevance and take market share away from WordPress, all the more power to them,

Re: Things you should know about PHP 7

#70

Post by batou »

larzang wrote: post #24
mawburn wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>... and available on general cheap webhosting sometime around 2020. If we're lucky. Shared Hosting needs to die off anyway.

Okay, sure, instead your new job is to play security and sysadmin for the DigitalOcean containers for all the small local business Wordpress sites for say $10 an hour. Shared Hosting has many downsides, but it still fills an incredibly important niche for businesses for whom a web presence beyond a Facebook page is needed but real managed hosting is completely out of their price range.

A million times this. Also some regularly missed advantages of shared hosting are that its usually available in the same country as you, is portable unlike PaaS solutions, doesn't require lots of legwork and tends to come with a shit ton of bandwidth up front meaning no per-Gb costs which can ramp pretty quickly.
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