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Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

developers.facebook.com

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Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#91

Post by traitorjoe »

Havoc wrote: post #53
acdha wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't you just open facebook.com in your phone's browser? I've been doing that for a couple of years since noticing that it's both faster and more reliable than the Facebook iOS app.

Yeah its tedious though. So mostly I just decide it can wait till I get home and have access to a computer.

If you're on Android, you should check out Tinfoil for Facebook. It's a wrapper for facebook's mobile page. I find it more useful than the regular facebook app. You can also get notifications back using IFTTT.

Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#92

Post by simoncion »

throwawayaway wrote: post #81
simoncion wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We apparently have quite different friends. Removing myself from Hangouts means that I get information either in person, or through email, if at all. I'm currently relying on the Signal rework of TextSecure to get most of us off of Hangouts: the big barrier to adoption has been easy-to-configure clients that work on Android, iOS, and desktop and sync message history amongst clients.

web client xmpp isn't going to be very good at storing message history, i'll grant you.

Yep. You'd need a server somewhere to store and replay that message history. There is an XMPP standard that specifies how to do that. Question is whether or not your client can speak that protocol.

Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#93

Post by simoncion »

hudell wrote: post #79
simoncion wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1) Apparently missing some messages from Hangouts users. Shit, Hangouts itself is an unreliable message delivery system. [0] At least once an month in both group chats and one-on-one chats I will get messages that seem out of context. Somewhere between many minutes and an hour later, the messages between the OOC one and the previous [1] message will silently appear. The "new" messages are inserted between the previ…

I used to have this problem and it was something really stupid, like the local clock's time being wrong.

I really wish it was that simple for me: my phone is synced with the cell network and all of my other computers get their time from NTP.

Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#94

Post by simoncion »

click170 wrote: post #65
throwawayaway wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i've had limited success, one factor that helped was me going cold turkey on the alternatives. also you define your own success, gaining a monopoly is rather a high standard!

This. If you won't drop the other networks there's no need for them to join your server, your still on the networks they're already using. Only you can change that.

I wrote a reply to another message that expressed this sentiment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9267342

Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#95

Post by ozmbie »

hengheng wrote: post #66
AceJohnny2 wrote: post #2

Sigh , yet another nail in the XMPP coffin, at least as far as the general public is concerned. Remember when we had ICQ, and AIM, and MSN Messenger, and Gadu-Gadu, and we were dreaming of a unified messaging system?

So, I don't do web or software development, let me tell you^W^Wrant about how chat in 2015 feels to use. I'm 27, I grew up on IRC, I know my ICQ UIN by heart. Chat has always replaced SMS for me, and most groupware as well. I was happy when Facebook came along, and suddenly even the non-nerdy friends were compatible with my preferred way of having an endless conversation about random things. Chatting feels natural to…

I used to use Skype for persistent, cross-platform group chat with my close group of friends. But we recently switched to using Slack, and it's far better.

The only thing that's missing, is end-to-end encryption.

Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#97

Post by pjtr »

hengheng wrote: post #66
AceJohnny2 wrote: post #2

Sigh , yet another nail in the XMPP coffin, at least as far as the general public is concerned. Remember when we had ICQ, and AIM, and MSN Messenger, and Gadu-Gadu, and we were dreaming of a unified messaging system?

So, I don't do web or software development, let me tell you^W^Wrant about how chat in 2015 feels to use. I'm 27, I grew up on IRC, I know my ICQ UIN by heart. Chat has always replaced SMS for me, and most groupware as well. I was happy when Facebook came along, and suddenly even the non-nerdy friends were compatible with my preferred way of having an endless conversation about random things. Chatting feels natural to…

You are so right. I really wanted XMPP to succeed and I used in happily back in 2002 or so. But it just doesn't seem to have evolved at all. You pretty much nailed it with persistent group chat and shared chat history. Skype can really get on my nerves, but it had this covered since forever, and trying to get people on XMPP without equivalent features is hopeless.

Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#98

Post by pjtr »

click170 wrote: post #89
hengheng wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Server-side chat logfiles that are distributed to all connecting clients? I've never looked into the protocol, but I'm pretty sure that one is lacking.

I haven't heard of an extension that does that either, but I'm not sure that would scale well for busy long-running Multi User Chats. But the benefit of XMPP is that a new extension can be proposed that does this if enough people want such a feature. Personally I would argue that a better approach would be to make Public MUC logs accessible and searchable via a web interface and to have the client log chats going for…

The problem with XMPP MUC's is that it's modelled after IRC, as that's what the protocol hackers know and love. But (please forgive the hyperbole) normal people don't use IRC, they use Skype. And the Skype model is so foreign to the IRC / XMPP techies that they'll always dismiss any attempts to add these features, often with spurious technical doubts as you just did. Ignoring that Skype has these features since a decade and has taken over (some parts of) the world because it has them. (Skype alone today has about ten times more daily active users than all IRC networks together!)

Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#99

Post by xorcist »

AceJohnny2 wrote: post #55
cbhl wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth noting that XMPP was based on XML. New hotness is JSON, or maybe even compressed binary protocols.

I don't know if you're being ironic about JSON. Note that jkarneges, who comments elsewhere in this thread, is the creator of Psi [1], arguably the best XMPP-focused messaging client. The value/burden of XML has always been a topic of debate for XMPP. In retrospect, I think it contributed to its lack of appeal, though the extensibility and readbility (ehm, arguably) it provided were unique back then. I've long wonder…

What is the purpose of layering your chat protocol over another protocol at all?

SMTP has no "base protocol" in this sense. HTTP, nothing (unless you count RFC 822).

It's hard to think there protocols would have had the same life time if they were based on XML, JSON, or protobufs. (Yeah, HTTP over XML, that should be enough to give you nightmares. But welcome to DAV and XMPP.)

Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#100

Post by na85 »

AceJohnny2 wrote: post #2

Sigh , yet another nail in the XMPP coffin, at least as far as the general public is concerned. Remember when we had ICQ, and AIM, and MSN Messenger, and Gadu-Gadu, and we were dreaming of a unified messaging system?

I've been saying for years that an update to the IRC protocol to allow for push notifications without requiring users to have a shell and set up a bnc would be pretty much ideal.

The constant ping-pongs really dissuade me from using IRC on my mobile as it kills my battery life. Being able to set some kind of "mobile" mode and receive push notifications if I get a hilight would be ideal.

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