Node.js Tools for Visual Studio • Hacker News Board

Re: Node.js Tools for Visual Studio

#81

Post by NeutronBoy » Thu, Mar 26, 2015, 1:12 AM UTC

WorldWideWayne wrote: post #50

nickysielicki wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I was being hyperbolic, but my point still stands. The LARGE majority of developers have accepted unix as their overlord, and that poses a huge problem to microsoft as they're a second thought. They're forced to try to fit new frameworks into their ecosystem, rather than on unix where developers expect it to run. I see it ultimately as damage control. With the overwhelming majority of developers on unix, you're…

What evidence do you have that the majority of developers are on Unix? Just web devs or all devs? I doubt that it's true in either case. IT departments around the world employ programmers to make all sorts of business apps including internet/intranet web apps. Even some very small companies have custom apps to do business and the vast majority of businesses are using Windows.

And this is a great development - it means for future enterprise projects, Node will become a more realistic choice, because it means that using Node on a project doesn't require orgs to build entirely new infrastructure to support * nix deployments or dev environments.

Re: Node.js Tools for Visual Studio

#82

Post by thebouv » Thu, Mar 26, 2015, 2:18 AM UTC

Gotta hand it to Microsoft.

Behind the times on web dev for so long, now busting out open source left and right, teaming up on Angular with Google, jumping on with nodejs, modernizing their tools, "gently" pushing locked in MS web devs out of the darkness of that Web Forms madness into the light of real web development.

I've always been a LAMP stack dev but they have at least caught my attention as of late.

Re: Node.js Tools for Visual Studio

#83

Post by thearrow » Thu, Mar 26, 2015, 2:48 AM UTC

babby wrote: post #61

I was really excited about Visual Studio for a chance at Coffeescript intellisense, however I learned after the several gig download it wasn't supported. It seems there is basically no way to get proper autocomplete in any editor for CS, suggesting maybe I should just consider Babel for ES6/7 despite my massive love for CS and giant projects built in it.

You might want to check out sublime with the 'Better Coffeescript' and 'CoffeeComplete Plus' packages. I've been using it for a while and, while it's not perfect, it's the best I've found.

https://github.com/aponxi/sublime-better-coffeescript https://github.com/justinmahar/SublimeCSAutocompletePlus

Re: Node.js Tools for Visual Studio

#84

Post by jeswin » Thu, Mar 26, 2015, 2:50 AM UTC

thebouv wrote: post #82

Gotta hand it to Microsoft. Behind the times on web dev for so long, now busting out open source left and right, teaming up on Angular with Google, jumping on with nodejs, modernizing their tools, "gently" pushing locked in MS web devs out of the darkness of that Web Forms madness into the light of real web development. I've always been a LAMP stack dev but they have at least caught my attention as of late.

> Gotta hand it to Microsoft. Behind the times on web dev for so long, now busting out open source left and right, ....

Open Source is not just about opening up some source code, it is also about how you act in the larger interests of the community. Just earlier this month, Microsoft sued Kyocera over patents on Android. Microsoft has sued every Android phone maker so far, and have forced some of them to make Windows phones. Their position on Linux infringing unspecified patents has not changed or been clarified.

Microsoft is playing the Open Source game because they really have no choice. Open Source has thrived and will thrive without them. Microsoft doesn't deserve our attention until they stop abusing patents.

Re: Node.js Tools for Visual Studio

#85

Post by airtonix » Thu, Mar 26, 2015, 2:59 AM UTC

at-fates-hands wrote: post #5

mousetraps wrote: post #2

Dev here - happy to answer any questions you have :)

Is this going to make it easier to deploy NodeJs apps to Azure then? Love Azure, but had a hard time getting my NodeJS stuff up to Azure without some major issues.

This is a trend amongst developers who rely on monolithic programs for development.

YOu should really just stop developing on windows and learn to embrace docker.

Re: Node.js Tools for Visual Studio

#86

Post by AdeptusAquinas » Thu, Mar 26, 2015, 3:00 AM UTC

thebouv wrote: post #82

Gotta hand it to Microsoft. Behind the times on web dev for so long, now busting out open source left and right, teaming up on Angular with Google, jumping on with nodejs, modernizing their tools, "gently" pushing locked in MS web devs out of the darkness of that Web Forms madness into the light of real web development. I've always been a LAMP stack dev but they have at least caught my attention as of late.

>"gently" pushing locked in MS web devs out of the darkness of that Web Forms madness

Minor nitpick on your otherwise positive comment, we have been using ASP.NET MVC for almost ten years now (ok eight). Webforms have long been a thing of the past, at least in the circles most devs I know move in.

Re: Node.js Tools for Visual Studio

#87

Post by airtonix » Thu, Mar 26, 2015, 3:03 AM UTC

cabirum wrote: post #49

I remember a bunch of problems have been discussed earlier [1] concerning node.js on Windows, such as file-system path length limits and broken symlinks and lack of modules actually tested on Windows. That was almost a year ago, so how do the things stand now? [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7914566

windows not being a priority won't change, because windows as a deployment target is pretty much a joke.

I mean... desktop environment on your application server ... lol?

There's so much friction legality and culture wise to getting a windows server to spin up, get developers to use good practices, encourage automation and resusability...

Re: Node.js Tools for Visual Studio

#88

Post by BinaryIdiot » Thu, Mar 26, 2015, 3:41 AM UTC

tdicola wrote: post #45

This is great news, but aren't there bigger fish to fry with really supporting node.js & npm on Windows? The 255 character path limit bug has been around for a long time and still unresolved/broken on Windows (see https://github.com/joyent/node/issues/6960 and https://github.com/npm/npm/issues/5641 ). Suggestions to fix it on the Windows side have been closed too: http://visualstudio.uservoice.com/forums/121579-visua…

This! This really needs to be fixed! My first experience of getting a node application running on Windows ran into this very quickly due to the crazy dependency tree npm creates. While npm could certainly be improved this limit is so old it really needs to be fixed.

Re: Node.js Tools for Visual Studio

#89

Post by jsmeaton » Thu, Mar 26, 2015, 3:51 AM UTC

Hominem wrote: post #79

nickysielicki wrote: post #9

How many people do you think will actually use this? I just really cannot ever see mass use of azure and visual studio in the web ecosystem. The people writing nodejs code are all using vim and unix, and you're asking them to give up their workflow and change operating systems. I want to be able to poke around in bash. (edited back in) Sure, some people new to web programming might go this route. But the next big web…

I actually use it. I'm not serious about web development though, I just do it for my job. I also use Python Tools for Visual Studio, but that is a different story.

I almost considered doing my python development full-time in a windows vm because PTVS looks amazing.

Re: Node.js Tools for Visual Studio

#90

Post by pistle » Thu, Mar 26, 2015, 3:55 AM UTC

jeswin wrote: post #84

thebouv wrote: post #82

Gotta hand it to Microsoft. Behind the times on web dev for so long, now busting out open source left and right, teaming up on Angular with Google, jumping on with nodejs, modernizing their tools, "gently" pushing locked in MS web devs out of the darkness of that Web Forms madness into the light of real web development. I've always been a LAMP stack dev but they have at least caught my attention as of late.

> Gotta hand it to Microsoft. Behind the times on web dev for so long, now busting out open source left and right, .... Open Source is not just about opening up some source code, it is also about how you act in the larger interests of the community. Just earlier this month, Microsoft sued Kyocera over patents on Android. Microsoft has sued every Android phone maker so far, and have forced some of them to make Windows…

Forest, meet trees. MS is a very large company with divergent groups given KPI's that turn into seemingly contradictory actions.

It's the Kabuki theater of patent suing in order to eventually end up at a table finding a way to forge ahead "together." It's something the large IP players have all been doing on the long tail of the IP consolidation wars.

IP royalty harvesting is separate enough from the open source efforts that it's picking nits a bit.

MS is growing open source because players and groups have beaten the drum to get there and the lumbering giant has shifted. The seeds planted years ago are bearing fruit.

You can sing the war song, but Open has won. Glory be! Nobody is looking for everyone to jump into Azure as if it were the latest awesome distro because a bunch of core dev tools, frameworks, and open-friendly advances have happened, but on the current trajectory, we will see the old walls of our discontent torn down by those who built them.

You get enough .net devs to come out of their caves and you could be wading through as many "MS + my favorite open source project" posts as not... and the communities, overlapping into harmony, will have bigger upsides for both than downsides.

It's becoming an increasingly good time to be a developer. When those you hate become undifferentiated from yourself, do you grow to hate yourself or to love the one you hated?