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Node.js Tools for Visual Studio

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Re: Node.js Tools for Visual Studio

#51

Post by radicalbyte »

0xFFC wrote: post #39
robwilliams wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

node.js has been used heavily inside Microsoft for quite some time so even if they created this for internal use only it wouldn't be a waste of time. Microsoft employee here. And I think you vastly underestimate how popular Visual Studio is among enterprise developers - they're doing web development as well.

I don't have access to anyone inside of Microsoft, So I bring this up here, please tell Microsoft to develop official ssh client (With server it would be even better, but for now client I think would be enough) , I am tired of using putty for SSH'ing into my virtual machine. (or at least they can fork putty and make it official).Even in git plugin in visual studio they developed there is no SSH support.

Just use cmder or conemu; then you'll have a great console and ssh :)

Re: Node.js Tools for Visual Studio

#52

Post by mousetraps »

inglor wrote: post #20
mousetraps wrote: post #2

Dev here - happy to answer any questions you have :)

Any plans to make deployment of io.js easier to Azure websites? Also - any way we might get "break on exception" like with C#? Also - any plans to support debugging promises better?

Break on exception? Done! http://nodejstools.codeplex.com/wikipage?title=Debugging#bre...

We have SO MANY PLANS, so please upvote or request the ones you think are important :) https://nodejstools.codeplex.com/workitem/list/basic

Re: Node.js Tools for Visual Studio

#53

Post by 0xFFC »

radicalbyte wrote: post #51
0xFFC wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have access to anyone inside of Microsoft, So I bring this up here, please tell Microsoft to develop official ssh client (With server it would be even better, but for now client I think would be enough) , I am tired of using putty for SSH'ing into my virtual machine. (or at least they can fork putty and make it official).Even in git plugin in visual studio they developed there is no SSH support.

Just use cmder or conemu; then you'll have a great console and ssh :)

Thank you , last question , are they reliable ? ( I am installing them right now , but I think as you mention them , you can answer this question better ) Because I use SSH in my work and research all the time , I am kind of tired of putty and its bug's.

Re: Node.js Tools for Visual Studio

#54

Post by untog »

nickysielicki wrote: post #31
untog wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? Azure is platform agnostic at this point, it isn't just a home for .NET code.

The same reason I use *nix on the desktop: I like to be able to poke around on everything. It's really scary for someone new, but power users like environments where everything is modifiable and hate GUIs. I like being able to configure nginx a certain way. I like being able to get into a psql shell and play around with my data. I don't want to just give someone a git repository and magically press some buttons in th…

That approach doesn't seem to have hurt Heroku. And you know you can spin up a Linux VM in Azure, right?

Re: Node.js Tools for Visual Studio

#55

Post by Sanddancer »

nickysielicki wrote: post #31
untog wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? Azure is platform agnostic at this point, it isn't just a home for .NET code.

The same reason I use *nix on the desktop: I like to be able to poke around on everything. It's really scary for someone new, but power users like environments where everything is modifiable and hate GUIs. I like being able to configure nginx a certain way. I like being able to get into a psql shell and play around with my data. I don't want to just give someone a git repository and magically press some buttons in th…

MS has been pushing more and more for all of their tools to be scriptable through powershell, to give you just that. Getting stuck is harder and harder these days. Hell, powershell has features I'd love unix shells to copy, like being able to import libraries and use their classes and functions like any other shell command.

Re: Node.js Tools for Visual Studio

#56

Post by mousetraps »

tdicola wrote: post #45

This is great news, but aren't there bigger fish to fry with really supporting node.js & npm on Windows? The 255 character path limit bug has been around for a long time and still unresolved/broken on Windows (see https://github.com/joyent/node/issues/6960 and https://github.com/npm/npm/issues/5641 ). Suggestions to fix it on the Windows side have been closed too: http://visualstudio.uservoice.com/forums/121579-visua…

See comments on this thread re: max_path problems, workarounds, and how we help mitigate it in NTVS: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9265694

Otherwise, yeah - we don't like it either... here's the not-closed uservoice request ;-) https://windows.uservoice.com/forums/265757-windows-feature-...

EDIT: Re: fish: Indeed - we have some big fish to fry, but luckily msft is a big company that can fry multiple fish at a time. Personally, I'm excited to help improve the Node tooling story by frying this fish, and passing our learnings and feedback onto the the other teams @ msft so that they can improve their recipes. Ultimately, we strive to have a complementary set of fried fish. And maybe some vegetables too... :)

Re: Node.js Tools for Visual Studio

#57

Post by uptownJimmy »

nickysielicki wrote: post #31
untog wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? Azure is platform agnostic at this point, it isn't just a home for .NET code.

The same reason I use *nix on the desktop: I like to be able to poke around on everything. It's really scary for someone new, but power users like environments where everything is modifiable and hate GUIs. I like being able to configure nginx a certain way. I like being able to get into a psql shell and play around with my data. I don't want to just give someone a git repository and magically press some buttons in th…

Not to be at all rude or confrontational, but I think there's a lot of folks in the open-source communities that have no idea how drastically their numbers are DWARFED by the number of devs working in enterprise computing. And those enterprise devs often have no use at all for "poking around", for better or worse: their priorities are other, entirely.

Different strokes for different folks, but there's a lot more folks stroking the corporate way.

Re: Node.js Tools for Visual Studio

#58

Post by xenadu02 »

tdicola wrote: post #45

This is great news, but aren't there bigger fish to fry with really supporting node.js & npm on Windows? The 255 character path limit bug has been around for a long time and still unresolved/broken on Windows (see https://github.com/joyent/node/issues/6960 and https://github.com/npm/npm/issues/5641 ). Suggestions to fix it on the Windows side have been closed too: http://visualstudio.uservoice.com/forums/121579-visua…

MAX_PATH is the gift that keeps on giving.

Thanks to Microsoft's fanatical dedication to compatibility I don't see how it will ever get fixed. I think they could take a lesson from Apple here and have DLLS/EXEs contain SDK versions against which they are built, then mandate that Windows 10 apps must support a larger MAX_PATH. Of course if they were into learning lessons, they'd have done fat binaries so a single install could easily support 64-bit and 32-bit (or a single DLL could contain 64-bit and 32-bit versions).

For those not in the know, MAX_PATH and PATH_MAX (ugh) are defined in the Windows headers as 255. Because it was public people copied that constant and spread it around. So many apps and libraries out there are hard-coded to expect 255 that even if you change it in the Windows headers a million things will still be broken.

Even if you overcame that limitation, you'd have a situation where paths no longer worked reliably if they got passed around (or worse, long paths would trigger buffer overflows in poorly written apps and drivers).

You could fix it by passing apps not declared as large-path aware a shortened virtual path but the testing/edge case burden would be enormous.

So this is an example of a really quick decision one programmer probably made by themselves many years ago that we are forced to live with because the pain of changing it is too great compared to the benefit we'd receive.

Re: Node.js Tools for Visual Studio

#59

Post by jasonkester »

nickysielicki wrote: post #9

How many people do you think will actually use this? I just really cannot ever see mass use of azure and visual studio in the web ecosystem. The people writing nodejs code are all using vim and unix, and you're asking them to give up their workflow and change operating systems. I want to be able to poke around in bash. (edited back in) Sure, some people new to web programming might go this route. But the next big web…

Indeed. Somewhat related, I read about this big car manufacturer that's started building cars with the steering wheel on the left side.

Silly, right?

I mean, who would want to sit on the left side of the car when they're driving? Nobody I know ever has. I mean yeah, you see them on the road every once in a while, but it must just be people new to driving who haven't learned better.

Everybody drives on the left side of the road (at least everywhere I'm aware of), so it just naturally follows that you need to have the wheel on the right. Switching things up would force everybody to completely change up their driving workflow.

Re: Node.js Tools for Visual Studio

#60

Post by scubadude »

WorldWideWayne wrote: post #50
nickysielicki wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I was being hyperbolic, but my point still stands. The LARGE majority of developers have accepted unix as their overlord, and that poses a huge problem to microsoft as they're a second thought. They're forced to try to fit new frameworks into their ecosystem, rather than on unix where developers expect it to run. I see it ultimately as damage control. With the overwhelming majority of developers on unix, you're…

What evidence do you have that the majority of developers are on Unix? Just web devs or all devs? I doubt that it's true in either case. IT departments around the world employ programmers to make all sorts of business apps including internet/intranet web apps. Even some very small companies have custom apps to do business and the vast majority of businesses are using Windows.

For the most part, npm packages work fine on both Windows and nix platforms. However, it is pretty clear that most are developed on, and have fewest problems with, nix. I believe that is due to the massive popularity of Macs with the JavaScript-focused web dev crowd.
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