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The Little “Fighter” That Couldn’t: Moral Hazard and the F-35

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21–30 of 233 posts

Re: The Little “Fighter” That Couldn’t: Moral Hazard and the F-35

#21
When the F-4 Phantom was developed, it was decided that air-to-air missiles had obsoleted guns. No guns were put in the F-4. Fast forward to aerial combat in Vietnam, and mechanics were jury-rigging bolt-on machine gun pods under the wings.

I fear we're making the same mistake again.

Re: The Little “Fighter” That Couldn’t: Moral Hazard and the F-35

#22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The services guard their missions jealously. They don't want competition within their various roles -- those roles are their justifications for budget, status and involvement. There are good reasons for specialization, of course. But the institutional politics can't be ignored. I've heard that the Marines actually have really good air support, because they have their own planes and the generals make damn sure those p…

> I've heard that the Marines actually have really good air support, because they have their own planes Why can't the army buy the same planes, are they not being manufactured any more?

Pilots are the hard problem. It's really hard to train them, and to incentivize people to manage them. The Marines can piggy-back on the Navy's aviation personnel infrastructure.

And again, the Marines are capped on scope creep by their placement in the Navy. The Army isn't, so if they got planes that would be much scarier for the Air Force than the Marines.

Re: The Little “Fighter” That Couldn’t: Moral Hazard and the F-35

#24
post #18
post #6

It is just inconceivable that we have a multi-decade program to develop a new fighter to fill all these roles, and what we've produced is either equivalent to or worse than the incumbent in all cases, is not safe to fly in combat situations, and is more expensive to boot. I mean we've seen this sort of thing happen on a smaller scale before, but versions of this plane are supposed to replace, like, everything in mult…

Just a friendly reminder why governments and large corporations can't develop shit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXQ2lO3ieBA

Totally agree with you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_11

Re: The Little “Fighter” That Couldn’t: Moral Hazard and the F-35

#26
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So get rid of the USAF / fold it back into the Army, this way the Navy has an air wing, and the Army has an air wing. Large sky battles are unlikely to happen ever again... the USAF was designed to deal with those, right around when they had become obsolete. Hooray for Parkinson's laws. The A-10 is a magnificent brute of a plane and does exactly the job it was designed to do, very well... so of course they want to mo…

The A10's minigun is ineffective at killing modern main-battle tanks, so I wouldn't say it's a raging sucess. In addition, it would certainly be blown up immediately if it came within shooting distance of a tank by any number of man-portable anti-air missiles. What it can do is provide reasonable close air support against Toyota pickups and infantry, but replacement parts for the plane or the molds to create them don…

> The A10's minigun is ineffective at killing modern main-battle tanks, so I wouldn't say it's a raging sucess.

I love those improvised battle tanks by the guerrilas that the US has been encountering in their last 30 years of wars.

Re: The Little “Fighter” That Couldn’t: Moral Hazard and the F-35

#27
post #23

I've never understood how any engineer would think that a plane could be built to fulfill all of the demands from all military branches. My guess is that they don't, but they get to play with cool tech. And hey, the money is flowing so why not try?

The F35 program has been pretty much a disaster. But, that said, the concept of departing from a model in which every service branch and every allied country to which we sell military hardware has largely unique equipment for every mission isn't inherently a bad one. But we've apparently discovered that, among other problems with the program, it's harder to come up with a viable common design than many apparently thought.

Re: The Little “Fighter” That Couldn’t: Moral Hazard and the F-35

#28

It's duplicitous of me to bring this up given all the other problems with this plane, but since it's a favorite topic of argument here, let's not forget the F-35's software is mostly developed in C++, and had been, in the past, touted as a triumph of C++ over Ada.

Ok, that's scary, I would accept C for such a job but C++ provides too many opportunities for things to go wrong in strange and difficult to find ways.

Re: The Little “Fighter” That Couldn’t: Moral Hazard and the F-35

#29
post #5

With the concept of strategic bombing being a moot point, replaced by unmanned guided missiles and our moral unwillingness to strike at population centers, the only real purpose of the Air Force is close-air-support. Even air superiority is, really, an adjunct to that role, in that it protects the troops on the ground against enemy ground-attack aircraft and provides cover for our ground attack aircraft. Seeing, argu…

No, that's not true.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War_air_campaign http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_bombing_of_Yugoslavia

There are still valid strategic targets that are well outside of the role of close air support, including command centers, AAA/SAM sites, military bases, manufacturing facilities, bridges, roads, and communications facilities.

Re: The Little “Fighter” That Couldn’t: Moral Hazard and the F-35

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The services guard their missions jealously. They don't want competition within their various roles -- those roles are their justifications for budget, status and involvement. There are good reasons for specialization, of course. But the institutional politics can't be ignored. I've heard that the Marines actually have really good air support, because they have their own planes and the generals make damn sure those p…

So get rid of the USAF / fold it back into the Army, this way the Navy has an air wing, and the Army has an air wing. Large sky battles are unlikely to happen ever again... the USAF was designed to deal with those, right around when they had become obsolete. Hooray for Parkinson's laws. The A-10 is a magnificent brute of a plane and does exactly the job it was designed to do, very well... so of course they want to mo…

The real trouble with the A-10 is that it cannot fit modernized avionics. What needs to happen is a redesign of the A-10 airframe with modern maintenance characteristics.

Instead we got this obsession with multi-role nonsense that led to the F-35 ball of crap over both an A-10 successor and the F-22!

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