New Jersey legalizes direct Tesla sales • Hacker News Board

Re: New Jersey legalizes direct Tesla sales

#211

Post by ctdonath » Fri, Mar 20, 2015, 1:17 PM UTC

ams6110 wrote: post #201

ctdonath wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm baffled that anyone would think that's a great idea. Compelling drivers to pay someone to do something that nearly all drivers have no problem doing themselves seems absurd. Please explain your reasoning.

When I was a kid nearly all fuel stations were "full service." You would pull in, and an attendant would pump the fuel, check oil, clean your windows, air up tires if needed, take payment, and you never had to step out of the car. It was really nice, actually. Now you get to do all that yourself while standing out in the cold or heat, or dealing with an indifferent clerk who adds zero value to the transaction.

Providing the service as an option is fine.

Mandating it is absurd. That people would go so far as incarcerate people for pumping their own gas goes way beyond resolving an inconvenience and well into normalizing bureaucratic oppression. (Yes, that sounds overstated - but really, jail time for pumping gas? it's not about the pumping, it's about something being very wrong & dangerous about the mindset that thinks jail time for pumping gas is reasonable.)

Re: New Jersey legalizes direct Tesla sales

#212

Post by trjordan » Fri, Mar 20, 2015, 2:22 PM UTC

CamperBob2 wrote: post #176

trjordan wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pro-tip: if you're calling them, they don't have a $100 / month plan to sell you. There aren't many companies that sell most of their business at $5,000 / month through the website. And for those that do, talking to a sales rep gets you a discount just for picking up the phone. Also, having moved from programming to sales/marketing, I'm a bit more sympathetic towards the "call me" model of selling. There's a lot of c…

There's a lot of companies (like mine) that aren't deliberately withholding information, but instead are training and enabling reps to walk you through a process that can't be navigated with blog posts and product pages alone. I've designed complex electronic devices via product pages (data sheets) and other online information sources, and sold them to the Federal government through GSA procurement. I'm pretty sure I…

I'm not questioning your intelligence! I'm sure you could do it.

The more common scenario is that there are a ton of people involved, and it's not easy / worthwhile for the person who kicked this off to convince them all. Where the sales rep provides value there is they can help the you sell. You make an intro, they'll pull together a bunch of materials and demos and other crap to convince your coworkers that it's important.

We do have a self-serve path which is about as easy as anybody else's, and our prices are stated up front. Most people can navigate that technically, but the larger organizations almost never take that route because of organizational / political concerns.

Re: New Jersey legalizes direct Tesla sales

#213

Post by damon_c » Fri, Mar 20, 2015, 3:29 PM UTC

cgriswald wrote: post #190

damon_c wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So obvious right? Well, we already have laws that make the possession of heroin illegal. They are broken all the time. With regards to the original point about silly laws that prevent us from spending our money and free time in ways that don't harm others, if person A is walking down the street and person B illegally uses heroin on the same street, person A is not likely to be harmed. You can't really say the same ab…

You have established that person B is not going to follow the law in any case. So if there is a law in place preventing person B from possessing a machine gun, person B is still going to acquire a machine gun and use it illegally and person A is still harmed. You haven't solved the problem by moving the solution further up the chain, but you have prevented responsible, law-abiding folks from acquiring a machine gun.…

This argument is certainly logically sound but maybe it is ok for law abiding citizens to be prevented from owning machine guns. Also, lets prevent them from owning missiles, nuclear weapons, and deadly nerve gas.

But where does one draw the line? Cars can be deadly weapons too! And plastic forks! Maybe it's somewhere around "objects whose sole designed purpose is to kill large numbers of humans in a short period of time".

Isn't there a base level evolutionary incentive for everyone to have as few objects like that near them as possible?

Re: New Jersey legalizes direct Tesla sales

#214

Post by Tenhundfeld » Fri, Mar 20, 2015, 4:02 PM UTC

GFK_of_xmaspast wrote: post #168

Tenhundfeld wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if GP is trolling. Having spent time in NJ visiting family, I've researched this issue a bit and have never found any logic to support the ban on self-service pumps – beyond corruption, politics, etc. The one interesting thing I did find is that many disabled motorists have a very hard time using self-service pumps – while still being able to drive safely with vehicle modifications. The Americans with Disabi…

We are rapidly moving towards making lots and lots of jobs on the low end of the skill spectrum obsolete. (and plenty of medium-to-high skill jobs as well) Non-self-service stations provide a lot of employment opportunities.

Yeah, that argument doesn't work for me. Creating arbitrary, unnecessary inefficiencies in the market does not benefit a society economically in the long-run – and is bad mechanism for wealth redistribution.

Why not ban ATM's to provide bank teller employment? Or ban self-checkout at grocery stores? Let's not forget all of those poor elevator operators out of work.

Maybe we should go around breaking windows to create work for local glaziers? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window)

I appreciate the sentiment of wanting to provide low-skill employment opportunities, but this is not the way to do it. It's provably bad logic.

Re: New Jersey legalizes direct Tesla sales

#215

Post by minot » Fri, Mar 20, 2015, 4:23 PM UTC

zanny wrote: post #191

cgriswald wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have established that person B is not going to follow the law in any case. So if there is a law in place preventing person B from possessing a machine gun, person B is still going to acquire a machine gun and use it illegally and person A is still harmed. You haven't solved the problem by moving the solution further up the chain, but you have prevented responsible, law-abiding folks from acquiring a machine gun.…

I'm always in favor of the first amendment, but this is one context where outlawing the firearms does make a difference. There is a significant lower penetration of firearms in Europe period since almost every European country bans possession. That does not mean that someone who really wants a machine gun cannot get one - but that it takes a lot more effort to get one. Effort that many deranged and unstable people ar…

> I'm always in favor of the first amendment, but this is one context where outlawing the firearms does make a difference. There is a significant lower penetration of firearms in Europe period since almost every European country bans possession.

Did you mean second amendment? Or do you mean that the pro-gun lobby does not have a right to free speech? If it didn't have implications beyond gun control, I might even support it. It is really sad that the only people in the pro-gun lobby are industry shills. Anybody who deviates ever so slightly from the official message gets effectively shut down by the lobby as not being one of them.

Re: New Jersey legalizes direct Tesla sales

#216

Post by speby » Fri, Mar 20, 2015, 5:24 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #148

bnejad wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best way to buy cars is option out exactly what you want and get the invoice price. Personally I've used carsdirect. Now with invoice price in mind, send emails to all dealers in your area. Simply explain you want X car @ X price and that you are emailing many dealers and will move forward with the dealer that has the best deal. Its important that you compare cars across dealers by the difference from invoice pri…

The best way to buy a car is from Tesla. Configure your car exactly as you want it online. See the exact price you will pay. When you're ready, click the button and put down a deposit using a credit card on their web site. When the car is delivered, pay the balance with an ACH transfer. Drive it home. You certainly can do well with traditional dealers if you're prepared. It's just crazy that you even have to worry ab…

I'm surprised no one has yet mentioned CarMax. I won't argue as to whether CarMax is best or not but I can attest that it is a very straight-forward, no-haggle, and pretty fair-priced way to buy a car. Even if you don't feel they are best-priced, you definitely will 100% avoid all of the anxiety and nerve-wrackiness that comes with going into traditional dealerships. That alone might be worth a slightly inflated price to avoid that experience anyways.

Re: New Jersey legalizes direct Tesla sales

#217

Post by chaostheory » Fri, Mar 20, 2015, 7:02 PM UTC

digikata wrote: post #179

chaostheory wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The best way to buy cars is option out exactly what you want and get the invoice price. The problem is that you can't get exactly what car you want (all the options, color, etc...). Why? Because you're only limited to what dealers have in stock. You can't even wait a few months for what you. It's just not an option for most cars aside from Tesla.

I've found that dealers will trade cars with other dealers to the get what is wanted, but they'll try push back on the buyer to avoid having to do that. If it's out of stock in the region - then you have a harder situation...

It's still not exactly what people want in terms of exact options and color: no less and no more. There are people willing to wait.

Re: New Jersey legalizes direct Tesla sales

#218

Post by bnejad » Fri, Mar 20, 2015, 8:01 PM UTC

speby wrote: post #216

mikeash wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best way to buy a car is from Tesla. Configure your car exactly as you want it online. See the exact price you will pay. When you're ready, click the button and put down a deposit using a credit card on their web site. When the car is delivered, pay the balance with an ACH transfer. Drive it home. You certainly can do well with traditional dealers if you're prepared. It's just crazy that you even have to worry ab…

I'm surprised no one has yet mentioned CarMax. I won't argue as to whether CarMax is best or not but I can attest that it is a very straight-forward, no-haggle, and pretty fair-priced way to buy a car. Even if you don't feel they are best-priced, you definitely will 100% avoid all of the anxiety and nerve-wrackiness that comes with going into traditional dealerships. That alone might be worth a slightly inflated pric…

True and they will ship cars around their lots for you. That said, you pay for it if you don't end up purchasing the car but I think it opens up a lot of inventory to sift through.

Re: New Jersey legalizes direct Tesla sales

#219

Post by joshdance » Fri, Mar 20, 2015, 8:16 PM UTC

Butah wrote: post #151

Too bad Utah can't get their act together. Even after Tesla built a showroom and stocked it with cars, the state legislators voted to keep the existing stealership cartel laws on the books.

I was following the vote. A few said they didn't have time to read it, didn't know what the bill ramifactions were, but I agree, we have to get our act together. :)

Re: New Jersey legalizes direct Tesla sales

#220

Post by andrewtbham » Sat, Mar 21, 2015, 4:53 PM UTC

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #104

andrewtbham wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because the dealership's concern is not Tesla, whom they consider a niche player. Their concern is their manufacturers GM, Toyota, Ford will set up their own stores and compete with and undercut them. The dealerships have poured a lot of resources into their dealerships over the years and it is an anti-trust issue for them to compete directly with the much more powerfule manufacturers.

How is this "anti-trust?" Best Buy sells Apple computers just like the Apple store down the street. This is the normal sales model. The dealer protectionism we have today is the corrupt exception.

It is by definition an anti-trust situation. Any car company could have a monopoly on their car's brand distribution.

I am not defending the auto dealerships. I think their days are numbered and they will be put out of business. I am long Tesla stock. I am merely pointing out their perspective. There is plenty of anti-trust precedent regarding manufacturers competing unfairly with retailers.

Movie studios and movie theaters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Paramount_Pict....

Standard Oil http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Oil_Co._of_New_Jersey_...

Just google Sherman antitrust act.