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New Jersey legalizes direct Tesla sales

blog.caranddriver.com

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Re: New Jersey legalizes direct Tesla sales

#201

Post by ams6110 »

ctdonath wrote: post #88
GFK_of_xmaspast wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the ban on self-service fueling is a great idea and I wish more states (beyond Oregon) would do it.

I'm baffled that anyone would think that's a great idea. Compelling drivers to pay someone to do something that nearly all drivers have no problem doing themselves seems absurd. Please explain your reasoning.

When I was a kid nearly all fuel stations were "full service." You would pull in, and an attendant would pump the fuel, check oil, clean your windows, air up tires if needed, take payment, and you never had to step out of the car. It was really nice, actually. Now you get to do all that yourself while standing out in the cold or heat, or dealing with an indifferent clerk who adds zero value to the transaction.

Re: New Jersey legalizes direct Tesla sales

#202

Post by brc »

trjordan wrote: post #112
pavlov wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. It's like visiting the websites of two competing software vendors. One has a plain-as-day pricing table with a $100 / month plan and a big blue "Buy now" button. The other company's Pricing page just reads: "Call us for a quote". Given the choice, who would ever go with the company that makes you talk to an enterprise salesman? Somehow car dealers in the U.S. have managed to enshrine this sleazy sales model into…

Pro-tip: if you're calling them, they don't have a $100 / month plan to sell you. There aren't many companies that sell most of their business at $5,000 / month through the website. And for those that do, talking to a sales rep gets you a discount just for picking up the phone. Also, having moved from programming to sales/marketing, I'm a bit more sympathetic towards the "call me" model of selling. There's a lot of c…

Right. The conversion rate is better for some products after a salesperson walks the customer through.

Of course, you're cutting off the cohort of people who just don't want to talk to a salesperson - so you'll never convert those - but you're converting at a far higher rate with people who need explanations and a salesperson to help them navigate the internal blockers at the company.

There is a good joel-on-software post about this - essentially once the price goes above a set level - maybe $2000 all in - then the price has to jump because enterprise-y sales means that the buyer has to justify it to their purchasing, which means needing a salesperson to do all the grunt work to help.

A lot of people in the no-touch SaaS model think this is nuts - but the fact is different models work for different people. Just because two companies have similar-sounding products, it doesn't mean they are in the same market. Gmail and Exchange server essentially do the same thing, but the markets are mostly different, with only a small overlap.

Re: New Jersey legalizes direct Tesla sales

#203

Post by brc »

hnnewguy wrote: post #100
drzaiusapelord wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>People often forget that dealerships often abuse their power and take advantage of consumers. Don't worry we're reminded everytime we interact with them. Nothing says captive monopoly like an auto dealership. I'm buying a new car soon and am dreading the experience. I'm leaning towards a used car that's still on warranty because of how bad the dealership experience is and the various ways they try to scam you (hidde…

> I'm buying a new car soon and am dreading the experience I've bought multiple cars in my life. I don't understand this in the slightest. Every experience I've had has been only slightly more involved than purchasing anything else, as it should be for the cost. The dealership world is hyper-competitive. Know the value of the car you want, and what you're willing to pay. Let them know that. If they can't do it, go el…

There is no such thing as 0% financing. The cost of the interest is buried in the product somewhere.

Re: New Jersey legalizes direct Tesla sales

#204

Post by ams6110 »

spiralpolitik wrote: post #152

It's the 21st century. I find it amusing that I can order my computer build to order in less than 30 seconds and I know I'm getting the same price as everybody else. Yet to order a car I have to spend days/weeks of research, spreadsheets, emails, phone calls and I still won't get the car I want. The auto industry is ripe for disruption. The sooner the dealership model is replaced by something more consumer friendly,…

how do you know you are getting the same price as everyone else? online sales certainly are not immune to pricing tailored to the individual buyer... in fact they are in the best position to do that compared to a brick-and-mortar retail seller.

Re: New Jersey legalizes direct Tesla sales

#205

Post by faster »

r00fus wrote: post #155
bnejad wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best way to buy cars is option out exactly what you want and get the invoice price. Personally I've used carsdirect. Now with invoice price in mind, send emails to all dealers in your area. Simply explain you want X car @ X price and that you are emailing many dealers and will move forward with the dealer that has the best deal. Its important that you compare cars across dealers by the difference from invoice pri…

What you're describing is (or used to be) called fax-blast car buying [1], and the best move once you've firmed your decision on exactly what you want is to contact the fleet sales managers with either a quote request, or an offer to buy - repeating the offer process until you stabilize on a overall discounted price. In my case, I worked with 3 dealerships (one where I test drove the vehicle and 2 other fleet manager…

My sister bought a car last summer. She started with a fax-blast site, then scheduled a test drive with the dealer with the best price. The night before, she called a fleet broker one of her friends suggested. He sent a price that was about $120 less than the dealer's, and promised to deliver the car to her door with a full tank of gas.

The dealer refused to skip the 2 hours of paperwork ("It's required by the state" he said) and said the fleet broker was a scam. She left, called the fleet broker on the way home, and had her car the next day. The paperwork took 5 minutes, standing at her front door.

I have always wanted to take a cashier's check to a dealership and tell them "that car, this check, keys in my hand in 15 minutes or I leave." But I think I'll skip that show, entertaining as it might be, and use a fleet broker.

Re: New Jersey legalizes direct Tesla sales

#206

Post by brc »

maratd wrote: post #197
ericd wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that these laws were put into place so that the manufacturers couldn't have it both ways - they couldn't enjoy the low startup-capital requirements of the franchise model, and then after using the franchisees to grow and scout out the best spots, cherrypick the most lucrative spots for manufacturer owned dealerships, driving out the independent dealerships by using their lower end-to-end costs. Be…

> and then after using the franchisees to grow and scout out the best spots, cherrypick the most lucrative spots for manufacturer owned dealerships This is easily resolved on the contract level. Knowing this, nobody with half a brain would start a franchise unless the parent company guaranteed the territory. That's how it works in virtually every other franchising market.

Yes, this seems like a well-solved problem as nearly every franchising model includes company-owned stores.

Re: New Jersey legalizes direct Tesla sales

#207

Post by brc »

rayiner wrote: post #54
libria wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> States didn't like how much money was flowing from their economies to Detroit, and by making direct consumer sales illegal they gave a lot of leverage to franchises, which are local businesses. That seems to make sense. What's different about Palo Alto, CA that they're ok with money flowing directly there? Is it because dealerships have become unnecessary middlemen putting more $ on the cost before it reaches consu…

Palo Alto isn't different.[1] Getting rid of these laws will cost NJ jobs, while making products slightly cheaper for everyone else. In a state like NJ, that's a tough pill to swallow no matter what. [1] In fact, I imagine lots of state legislators hate Palo Alto for making middle class jobs in their states obsolete while creating a few high paying jobs in California and diverting the difference to shareholders in Ne…

It's not just states that hate Palo Alto. Foreign governments the world over are chafing at the amounts of revenue that pour into Google and Apple and they don't get even the tiniest cut.

A large economy will have consumers spending millions on google ads and iTunes content, and none of it will end up in the tax coffers of the local country.

This is better off for everyone except for the politicians who want to throw money around.

The eventual result will be make-work schemes like the local dealer franchises. Expect enforced-local entities in some countries where an office is created and people do meaningless work so the tax revenues can be domiciled. In other words, the exact same model as the car dealerships.

It's bad but people hate being exposed to the market, because it systematically punishes laziness. Most people will vote for a politician to make it easier for them to be lazy, even if it ultimately makes them worse off.

Re: New Jersey legalizes direct Tesla sales

#208

Post by brc »

vvanders wrote: post #144
naskwo wrote: post #79

Suggestion: go to Amsterdam Schiphol. Take a Tesla Model S to the city. Then make up your mind about the "Apple of cars". The consensus in NL is that you're better off with a Porsche Panamera than a Tesla, most likely with a less painful (although still painful) amortisation. Certainly, if you're taller than 180cm, drive before you buy into the hype.

6'2" Telsa owner here. No idea what you're talking about on not fitting. If it's a real concern get the panoramic roof which gains you another 3-4" of headroom.

I think the OP is talking about sitting in the back seat, not the front. I'd say OP got into a Tesla taxi/exec car and didn't like the room.

But not sure why comparing to the Panamera is a good example, because it has a low and sloping roofline, and is only a 4 seater. Weird choice.

Re: New Jersey legalizes direct Tesla sales

#209

Post by swatow »

rayiner wrote: post #94
paddy_m wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if you are advocating for a zero sum view of the economy, but you are definitely describing one. The thing about those middle class jobs that New Jersey is losing, is that they didn't need to exist. The only way they did was by stealing through coercion a little bit from people who chose to buy cars in New Jersey (mostly state residents).

I'm not describing a zero-sum economy. It's possible that NJ suffers a net local loss, even if that's more than outweighed by a net benefit in NJ + CA. And even if NJ enjoys a net local benefit, you still have a bunch of people out of work in return for everyone paying slightly lower prices for cars. In a place like NJ, where unemployment is the #1, #2, and #3 concern, you can see why legislators would be gun-shy abo…

The standard arguments for free trade apply as much to individual states as to countries. Just as the US enjoys a net benefit from buying goods from China instead of making them, so does New Jersey enjoy a net gain from its residents buying California cars without any New Jersey middleman.

Re: New Jersey legalizes direct Tesla sales

#210

Post by mikkom »

TheHypnotist wrote: post #111
a_c_s wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If dealers would all go out if business if they had to compete fairly, then doesn't that suggest they might not be providing customers with much value? While I do think market interventions are sometimes justified, in this case it seems we are protecting dealers for their own sake.

It wouldn't be competing "fairly" if they had to compete with the guys they buy their product from.

If they can't compete without laws that protect then they disappear - that is how free market works.
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