Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

New Jersey legalizes direct Tesla sales

blog.caranddriver.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 224 posts

Re: New Jersey legalizes direct Tesla sales

#101

Post by malchow »

spiralpolitik wrote: post #16
caw wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ban was created after Tesla started selling, and now it only lifted the ban for zero emission vehicles as far as I can tell (didn't read the whole bill). If Ford or GM wanted to sell direct, they couldn't. In the more generic case, states have these laws on the books to protect the local franchise dealers. These people buy cars from a particular manufacturer, usually multiple brands. In order to protect these dea…

Car dealerships are also generally small family owned businesses. The kind that plays well in red states as being the heart of the American economy of self made people. They must protected at all costs from competition, ideas, and regulation that could put them out of business. See Obamacare, eVerify, FMLA etc.

As far as I know, car dealers tend to be large empires built over the years through roll-ups; and they tend to ally themselves with the party favoring big government.[1]

[1] https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1454&dat=20010301&id=...

Re: New Jersey legalizes direct Tesla sales

#102

Post by jcfrei »

andrewtbham wrote: post #90
benmw333 wrote: post #53

Why only (4) stores? Why only "zero-emissions" vehicles? There should be zero limitations on direct to consumer sales for any manufacturer of any product.

because the dealership's concern is not Tesla, whom they consider a niche player. Their concern is their manufacturers GM, Toyota, Ford will set up their own stores and compete with and undercut them. The dealerships have poured a lot of resources into their dealerships over the years and it is an anti-trust issue for them to compete directly with the much more powerfule manufacturers.

Sunk costs shouldn't matter for economic decisions. Not that I expect the politicians to think this way. I don't see the point with the anti trust "issue" - regulating market power might have been an effective measure when there was only Ford. But that's decades ago.

Re: New Jersey legalizes direct Tesla sales

#103

Post by hnnewguy »

edvinbesic wrote: post #13
caw wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ban was created after Tesla started selling, and now it only lifted the ban for zero emission vehicles as far as I can tell (didn't read the whole bill). If Ford or GM wanted to sell direct, they couldn't. In the more generic case, states have these laws on the books to protect the local franchise dealers. These people buy cars from a particular manufacturer, usually multiple brands. In order to protect these dea…

"The ban was created after Tesla started selling, and now it only lifted the ban for zero emission vehicles as far as I can tell (didn't read the whole bill). If Ford or GM wanted to sell direct, they couldn't." Which is a damn shame. When shopping for a car every manufacturer currently has a 'build your own' tool online where you can build you car to spec and you get a rough estimate. However, in my experience, this…

>When I inquired as to what exactly did they improve he refused to answer in detail.

So why didn't you go elsewhere?

His living depends on the commission he earns from selling you the car. If you feel the people are dishonest, why do business with them?

Re: New Jersey legalizes direct Tesla sales

#104

Post by drzaiusapelord »

andrewtbham wrote: post #90
benmw333 wrote: post #53

Why only (4) stores? Why only "zero-emissions" vehicles? There should be zero limitations on direct to consumer sales for any manufacturer of any product.

because the dealership's concern is not Tesla, whom they consider a niche player. Their concern is their manufacturers GM, Toyota, Ford will set up their own stores and compete with and undercut them. The dealerships have poured a lot of resources into their dealerships over the years and it is an anti-trust issue for them to compete directly with the much more powerfule manufacturers.

How is this "anti-trust?" Best Buy sells Apple computers just like the Apple store down the street. This is the normal sales model. The dealer protectionism we have today is the corrupt exception.

Re: New Jersey legalizes direct Tesla sales

#105

Post by Frondo »

jbooth wrote: post #87
ctdonath wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm concerned that too often "potential to harm" is prioritized over with "actual harm is extremely rare, much less so than many things you're not worried about" and "sometimes harm is required to stop someone from causing more harm".

I'm pro gun rights, but if I could, I'd specifically outlaw sales of guns to anybody who's buying it based on a fantasy of taking out an active shooter.

I like that.

I also like the idea of requiring gun owners to buy liability insurance, in the event their gun is used to shoot or kill someone, or damage property; especially in the case of all these "accidental" shootings (which, really, are negligence on the part of the weapon owner).

Re: New Jersey legalizes direct Tesla sales

#106

Post by hnnewguy »

bmelton wrote: post #83
edvinbesic wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The ban was created after Tesla started selling, and now it only lifted the ban for zero emission vehicles as far as I can tell (didn't read the whole bill). If Ford or GM wanted to sell direct, they couldn't." Which is a damn shame. When shopping for a car every manufacturer currently has a 'build your own' tool online where you can build you car to spec and you get a rough estimate. However, in my experience, this…

> this estimate is never honored by dealers. The "build your car" tools on the websites always represent the "as low as" price. It assumes all possible rebates, many of which you aren't eligible for. If you were a military veteran who recently graduated college with great credit and an account at a credit union with a pre-existing arrangement with that dealership, and are also trading in a same-brand car while trying…

>The "build your car" tools on the websites always represent the "as low as" price.

Wrong. The "build your car" tool is generally the MSRP, since it's on the manufacturers site, which will be substantially higher than price you'll have to pay at the dealer.

Re: New Jersey legalizes direct Tesla sales

#107

Post by ethbro »

hnnewguy wrote: post #100
drzaiusapelord wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>People often forget that dealerships often abuse their power and take advantage of consumers. Don't worry we're reminded everytime we interact with them. Nothing says captive monopoly like an auto dealership. I'm buying a new car soon and am dreading the experience. I'm leaning towards a used car that's still on warranty because of how bad the dealership experience is and the various ways they try to scam you (hidde…

> I'm buying a new car soon and am dreading the experience I've bought multiple cars in my life. I don't understand this in the slightest. Every experience I've had has been only slightly more involved than purchasing anything else, as it should be for the cost. The dealership world is hyper-competitive. Know the value of the car you want, and what you're willing to pay. Let them know that. If they can't do it, go el…

A few more tips:

Like anything else, have alternative financing lined up before you start that conversation. This reduces the financing issue to one question: "Can you beat this rate?"

Secondly, I'd highly recommend going through internet/fleet sales at any dealership. Typically, these people are paid primarily in total-volume and less in sales-price-over-invoice, which gives them a great incentive to do the deal on your terms (as long as you don't abuse their time). The added bonus is these people also tend to be just fine negotiating the preliminaries over more convenient email. In contrast, every dollar you negotiate the lot salesman down is generally a dollar out of his pocket.

Re: New Jersey legalizes direct Tesla sales

#108

Post by morcheeba »

pavlov wrote: post #89
jaxbot wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, this could be an incentive to purchase zero-emission vehicles instead of the alternatives, as the buying experience would be theoretically much better than that of going to a traditional dealer.

Yes. It's like visiting the websites of two competing software vendors. One has a plain-as-day pricing table with a $100 / month plan and a big blue "Buy now" button. The other company's Pricing page just reads: "Call us for a quote". Given the choice, who would ever go with the company that makes you talk to an enterprise salesman? Somehow car dealers in the U.S. have managed to enshrine this sleazy sales model into…

"Call us" is if you're lucky. More like drive over to our place and we'll talk about it over stale coffee.

Re: New Jersey legalizes direct Tesla sales

#109

Post by bmelton »

hnnewguy wrote: post #106
bmelton wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this estimate is never honored by dealers. The "build your car" tools on the websites always represent the "as low as" price. It assumes all possible rebates, many of which you aren't eligible for. If you were a military veteran who recently graduated college with great credit and an account at a credit union with a pre-existing arrangement with that dealership, and are also trading in a same-brand car while trying…

> The "build your car" tools on the websites always represent the "as low as" price. Wrong. The "build your car" tool is generally the MSRP, since it's on the manufacturers site, which will be substantially higher than price you'll have to pay at the dealer.

Y'know what? You're absolutely right. That's what I get for answering before my first cup of coffee.

I had somehow mentally conflated the "browse our cars on the lot" page that many dealerships have with the "build your car on our site" page.

Thanks for the correction.

Re: New Jersey legalizes direct Tesla sales

#110

Post by TheHypnotist »

msandford wrote: post #49
TheHypnotist wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they would easily put franchise dealers out of business.

Also because the franchises weren't sold with an expiration date so for the manufacturers to start selling direct might be some kind of a breach of contract. But it'd take FOREVER to play out in the courts, and made worse by the fact that it's a national thing so you might not be able to consolidate it all down to one case in one federal court. It might be 50 class action suits in 50 states with several different out…

Yeah, I think the idea here is it would just be a nightmare for everyone. Also, dealer's employ lobbyists.
Post reply on HN