If you guys are interested in this stuff, I highly recommend "The Red Queen" by Matt Ridley. http://amazon.com/Red-Queen-Evolution-Human-Nature/dp/006055...
This is a great passage from the Red Queen, that might explain what was happening at the time: In the ancient empire of the Incas, sex was a heavily regulated industry. The sun-king Atahualpa kept fifteen hundred women in each of many “houses of virgins” throughout his kingdom. They were selected for their beauty and were rarely chosen after the age of eight—to ensure their virginity. But they did not all remain virg…
Analysis of DNA uncovers a rough dating scene after the advent of agriculture
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Re: Analysis of DNA uncovers a rough dating scene after the advent of agriculture
#52Feminists, take note: men are not privileged. Just those who were privileged were men. The fight must be against the few at the top.
Re: Analysis of DNA uncovers a rough dating scene after the advent of agriculture
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have a hunch that this ancient way of warfare is still the optimal way to destroy a culture and achieve total victory. Not that it's acceptable in any way, but imagine if the US had done this in Iraq and Afghanistan. It is heart-wrenching to think about, but I think it would have worked.
This is pretty much how Isis conducts their warfare.
Re: Analysis of DNA uncovers a rough dating scene after the advent of agriculture
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I would love to know of other mammalian species that have such low reproductive rates compared to females. Some species of deer probably match it.
True! Then it seems that the early agrarian humans had more of a herd mentality or reproductive structure of winner take all. Do other apes or monkeys have similar breeding structures? Fascinating stuff.
I just found a book called "Human Natures: Genes, Cultures, and the Human Prospect" which claims that southern elephant seals have harems of 48 females on average O_O - that's probably the record among mammals.
Re: Analysis of DNA uncovers a rough dating scene after the advent of agriculture
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is a great passage from the Red Queen, that might explain what was happening at the time: In the ancient empire of the Incas, sex was a heavily regulated industry. The sun-king Atahualpa kept fifteen hundred women in each of many “houses of virgins” throughout his kingdom. They were selected for their beauty and were rarely chosen after the age of eight—to ensure their virginity. But they did not all remain virg…
If wealth keeps getting concentrated in fewer and fewer hands, coupled with the sexual liberation of women, perhaps we'll see something like this again. 1% of the men enjoying 99% of procreation.
Re: Analysis of DNA uncovers a rough dating scene after the advent of agriculture
#56Not particularly surprising. In the ancient world, men were often killed in various ways (conflict, hunting accidents) or enslaved so the gender ratio was quite skewed. I mean, typical ancient warfare meant you attack a town, kill/enslave all the men and boys, rape all the women, and ensure your culture's dominance over them for the next generation or two...
Re: Analysis of DNA uncovers a rough dating scene after the advent of agriculture
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is a great passage from the Red Queen, that might explain what was happening at the time: In the ancient empire of the Incas, sex was a heavily regulated industry. The sun-king Atahualpa kept fifteen hundred women in each of many “houses of virgins” throughout his kingdom. They were selected for their beauty and were rarely chosen after the age of eight—to ensure their virginity. But they did not all remain virg…
If wealth keeps getting concentrated in fewer and fewer hands, coupled with the sexual liberation of women, perhaps we'll see something like this again. 1% of the men enjoying 99% of procreation.
in fact, a lot of seriously rich guys are sexually frustrated. modern society is not ancient incan feudalism, and it doesn't follow the same rules as 1950s western society either. it's unique.
Re: Analysis of DNA uncovers a rough dating scene after the advent of agriculture
#58It sounds like a persistent theme through history is that a very few people at the top had a Lot of power, and most men and all women were oppressed. Feminists, take note: men are not privileged. Just those who were privileged were men. The fight must be against the few at the top.
Re: Analysis of DNA uncovers a rough dating scene after the advent of agriculture
#59In a way, it sort of sounds like a eusocial sort of society, like a bee colony (but with the male female roles reversed). One reproducing male, many reproducing females, many non-reproducing males.
Re: Analysis of DNA uncovers a rough dating scene after the advent of agriculture
#60I've suspected as much would happen during the agricultural revolution, but I did not expect such a huge disparity. If the 51% male/female ratio did not change, then 16 out of 17 males must have either been killed, enslaved, or been left frustrated. This would imply a highly patriarchal society where the local king and his cronies are the only ones fed, and to whom you would sell your daughters to. The only other exp…
One other hypothesis I can think of is the advent of barbarian warfare. Many parts of the old testament details how brutal life was, where various tribes are constantly at war and conquering other tribes. Even several generations of warfare, where each village sacked involved killing the men and abducting the women, would filter out y-chromosomes to see such a large disparity.
Basically, agriculture allowed people to specialize. This included specializing in killing. (Soldiers). You would use these specialists to conquer other lands. Which, in turn, provided slave labor to increase production in agriculture and other sectors. So the conquered females would be used as "rewards" for the conquerors. And the conquered males would be used to increase production across the conquering society via slave labor.
So the explanation is pretty simple. In fact, the 17 to 1 figure is so low that I question whether they aren't missing something ??? Societies that developed later generally required enormous amounts of slave labor. That, coupled with the fact that there would have been an enormous amount of killing involved in taking the slaves in the first place, makes me wonder how the numbers turned out so evenhanded? I would have expected it to be an order of magnitude higher. But they did the study and have the data... so life must not have been quite as brutal as I thought it was.
I suppose it is possible that life was brutal... and less desirable females simply may not have been taken? This happened a lot in our own history. Slave auction records show that some female slaves in America sold for as much as 100 times the rate of a "regular" female slave. (And even more in some private trades we have records for). We can speculate on why that may have been... but I think it's safe to assume that in a less sophisticated time they may have simply dispensed with females and males who were in some way undesirable, or were not likely to survive the journey back.