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The Detroit Water Project (YC W15) Connects Donors to Unpaid Water Bills

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Re: The Detroit Water Project (YC W15) Connects Donors to Unpaid Water Bills

#21

Post by maxerickson »

falsestprophet wrote: post #16
maxerickson wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you hold your most recent meal to this same standard?

This is a good point of view because it frames these donations as personal consumption, which I think is accurate and distinct from the duty we owe our fellow man. So yes, I view donating to this or the opera similarly to eating a meal.

My point was more about the propriety of bloviating forth over what others do with their money (regardless of how you choose to classify those choices).

A meal is a handy rubric because it is quite easy to be either cost conscious or extravagant, thoughtful or oblivious.

Re: The Detroit Water Project (YC W15) Connects Donors to Unpaid Water Bills

#22

Post by [deleted] »

falsestprophet wrote: post #16
maxerickson wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you hold your most recent meal to this same standard?

This is a good point of view because it frames these donations as personal consumption, which I think is accurate and distinct from the duty we owe our fellow man. So yes, I view donating to this or the opera similarly to eating a meal.

[deleted]

Re: The Detroit Water Project (YC W15) Connects Donors to Unpaid Water Bills

#23

Post by tiffani »

csixty4 wrote: post #17
pdabbadabba wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you seriously contend that the problems plaguing Detroit are a result of their residents' collective failure to organize their lives properly? I think most people agree that the rampant poverty in Detroit -- and the resulting unpaid water bills -- are largely a result of city-level mismanagement and the evaporation of employment opportunities resulting in tax-revenue death spiral. We're talking about a city where…

Detroit has also raised the price of water a couple times over the last decade to make up for budget shortfalls from lower tax revenue. I think it's more than double what it was in 2005.

Right. There have been increases in the price of water in Detroit. And they're angling to increase them again.

Re: The Detroit Water Project (YC W15) Connects Donors to Unpaid Water Bills

#24

Post by _pius »

falsestprophet wrote: post #18
tiffani wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Founder of Detroit Water Project here. Despite what you’ve said, this is a serious effort to do good. You mention saving a life versus contributing to a water bill. Why are those so dissimilar? Our assistance application data shows that over 350 children are in houses affected by this crisis. Not having running water at your house is a real problem. It’s a public health and sanitation issue. People have not been able…

I suggest offering the option to both your donors and recipients to divert the funds to save as many lives as possible (call the Watsi crew). "It’s a false dichotomy to say that you either save a life by helping a child in a poor country OR give to a water bill in the United States. You can do both in proportion to your ability." For whatever proportion of someone's resources they are willing to give, they can choose…

Instead of providing one $1k life saving surgery and $1k water bill, two $1k surgeries could save two lives. Sadly there is not a shortage of dying men, women and children who can be saved cheaply. Perhaps one day there will be... if we stop goofing around.

You're making a fallacious, reductionist argument. Looks like a misreading of Peter Singer.

I imagine you'd also criticize someone for showing a homeless family to the nearest shelter because in that time the person could have signed up for Watsi!*

* ... and this is coming from someone who donates to Watsi every month.

Re: The Detroit Water Project (YC W15) Connects Donors to Unpaid Water Bills

#25

Post by falsestprophet »

tiffani wrote: post #19
falsestprophet wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suggest offering the option to both your donors and recipients to divert the funds to save as many lives as possible (call the Watsi crew). "It’s a false dichotomy to say that you either save a life by helping a child in a poor country OR give to a water bill in the United States. You can do both in proportion to your ability." For whatever proportion of someone's resources they are willing to give, they can choose…

I'm not against people getting medical treatments if they need them, but why call what we're doing "goofy"? The single mother of three we helped who was contemplating forgoing her heart medication to make sure her children had water (and lost it anyway because she needed her heart medication) wouldn't call this "goofing around." I'm genuinely interested in why you insist on framing this that way. Edit: Nothing that w…

We should value all lives equally. Yours, mine, that mother, her children, and the children in far away places who will die today for want of heart surgery.

Re: The Detroit Water Project (YC W15) Connects Donors to Unpaid Water Bills

#26

Post by pdabbadabba »

falsestprophet wrote: post #25
tiffani wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not against people getting medical treatments if they need them, but why call what we're doing "goofy"? The single mother of three we helped who was contemplating forgoing her heart medication to make sure her children had water (and lost it anyway because she needed her heart medication) wouldn't call this "goofing around." I'm genuinely interested in why you insist on framing this that way. Edit: Nothing that w…

We should value all lives equally. Yours, mine, that mother, her children, and the children in far away places who will die today for want of heart surgery.

There's a yawning gap between the language you're throwing around -- "goofy" -- and the kernel of legitimate criticism that you have on your side. I might agree that the choice to donate money to help Detroit residents pay their water bills is questionable because it reflects a conscious decision to do less good with your resources than you might have done. But I don't think you've earned the right to call the serious philanthropic efforts of others -- which do real good in the world -- "goofing around."

Re: The Detroit Water Project (YC W15) Connects Donors to Unpaid Water Bills

#27

Post by jes »

falsestprophet wrote: post #25
tiffani wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not against people getting medical treatments if they need them, but why call what we're doing "goofy"? The single mother of three we helped who was contemplating forgoing her heart medication to make sure her children had water (and lost it anyway because she needed her heart medication) wouldn't call this "goofing around." I'm genuinely interested in why you insist on framing this that way. Edit: Nothing that w…

We should value all lives equally. Yours, mine, that mother, her children, and the children in far away places who will die today for want of heart surgery.

This will probably sound harsh, and I regret that, but I think it's the way things actually are, as against how we might otherwise want them to be.

When you say "We should value all lives equally," what pops into my head is the question "Of value to whom?"

In fact, if I had to choose between saving the life of a stranger, and choosing to save the life of someone I loved, I'd save the latter. This is because the person I love is a greater value to me than is the stranger.

Re: The Detroit Water Project (YC W15) Connects Donors to Unpaid Water Bills

#28

Post by vidarh »

falsestprophet wrote: post #18
tiffani wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Founder of Detroit Water Project here. Despite what you’ve said, this is a serious effort to do good. You mention saving a life versus contributing to a water bill. Why are those so dissimilar? Our assistance application data shows that over 350 children are in houses affected by this crisis. Not having running water at your house is a real problem. It’s a public health and sanitation issue. People have not been able…

I suggest offering the option to both your donors and recipients to divert the funds to save as many lives as possible (call the Watsi crew). "It’s a false dichotomy to say that you either save a life by helping a child in a poor country OR give to a water bill in the United States. You can do both in proportion to your ability." For whatever proportion of someone's resources they are willing to give, they can choose…

I'm assuming you're spending every cent of your income on charity for the neediest people on the planet seeing as you are so concerned about how other people choose to spend their money.

Re: The Detroit Water Project (YC W15) Connects Donors to Unpaid Water Bills

#29

Post by xhrpost »

Pretty neat, just made a small donation. I think it would be cool to see real-time statistics and various metrics. Like how much has been given (regularly updating). What goals there are to reach people in certain priority levels, like 45% complete on P1 which is customer's water is scheduled for turn-off within the month. Show what numbers of monthly commitments would be needed. Etc. Donors could then better see the impact they are making. I think this is a big advantage to Watsi where you can see the person and their story. That may not be as simple for this project, but even aggregate metrics that show progress I think would be a huge incentive.

Re: The Detroit Water Project (YC W15) Connects Donors to Unpaid Water Bills

#30

Post by jaebrown »

I have a problem with this and question YC for taking on The Detroit Water Project. I'm truly not trying to be difficult but I do not see the full context of the situation here or in the TC article. I'm a native Detroiter (not the suburbs and live in the city now) and know that this problem is not as severe as often publicized.

There are programs already in place for people who are struggling to pay their water bills by the city, county, and state to avoid shut off regardless of their economic status. Why not focus your efforts on getting people enrolled in those programs; which would ensure they're doing everything within their power to keep water on.

As indicated by the Detroit Water and Sewerage Department, in the news, talking circles, and community events, there are some that simply choose not to pay their bill over others (i.e. phone, cable, etc...). What is the need to pay your bill if others will do it for you? The city has made a ton of bad decisions but this is not one of them.

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