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Housing markets: The spectre haunting San Francisco

economist.com

11–20 of 104 posts

Re: Housing markets: The spectre haunting San Francisco

#12

The top-voted comment for the same piece in the Economist explores the rent-seeking behavior of SF landlords, the origins and the conditions that gave rise to Prop 13 in the first place and proposes a set of (albeit, I admit, a bit far-fetched) solutions: I am one of these SF oligarchs, and I benefit from high rents of both types. Nevertheless, I have long called for an end to the rent-seeking. To me, the problem sta…

I wonder how that cap-and-trade system would be gamed by different interests?

The city would have to zone for the growth, or trade for credits. But zoning isn't the same as construction. It's hard to imagine an alternative without putting the city in the construction business, but it opens up loopholes. The existing system of "housing elements" http://www.hcd.ca.gov/hpd/hrc/plan/he/ seems broadly similar, and leads to some strange planning decisions.

http://goo.gl/VMla1K

> "...it wasn’t a proud day for the council because they’re basically saying it’s a scam and a shell game, but they’re voting for it."

Re: Housing markets: The spectre haunting San Francisco

#13
post #6

>> "Maybe we simply come up with better ways to build and design cities..." Reading that, I can't help but think that the canonically best methods for how to "build and design cities" have been pretty well understood for decades [0], if not much longer [1]. We in America have just been doing it wrong on purpose for quite a while (perhaps in order to goose suburban construction and automobile sales?) So the problem is…

We're talking about a city that just built a brand new, terabuck priced stadium (which will be around for 20-30 years) 43 miles out of the city in a car-centric suburb.

Re: Housing markets: The spectre haunting San Francisco

#14
By San Francisco, I suspect they mean the San Francisco Bay area. While building in SF proper would decrease rents there, we can't have everyone who wants to move to the Bay Area live in San Francisco proper.

Keeping this in mind, SF proper has a natural and inherent economic rent. So there is only so much pressure more building could relieve in SF proper. That said, I don't think many people would have much issue with being able to afford a place in San Mateo, Mountain View or San Jose, even Fremont. The problem is the whole bay area is averse to build up. So the only current option for those not able to afford the housing, is to commute two hours each way --South from Gilroy, East from Livermore/Tracy, northeast Coco county, etc. or doubling, tripling up and sharing rent. But that's not an option for many families.

It'd be physically difficult to have more than 6 million people living in San Francisco, no matter what density we built. So there would be some limit, just not the current approximate 800 odd thousand. The solution is to have an integrated Bay Area plan to accommodate as many people as the area can support. We must also keep in mind the ecological impact of sustaining more people in a semi arid region so perhaps desalination plants to offset water demand. Most of all, a regional government capable of making hard decisions rather than one which gives in to boisterous interest groups (rent control, height & shade restrictions, prop 13, and the adversity to pubic transit.

Re: Housing markets: The spectre haunting San Francisco

#15
post #13
post #6

>> "Maybe we simply come up with better ways to build and design cities..." Reading that, I can't help but think that the canonically best methods for how to "build and design cities" have been pretty well understood for decades [0], if not much longer [1]. We in America have just been doing it wrong on purpose for quite a while (perhaps in order to goose suburban construction and automobile sales?) So the problem is…

We're talking about a city that just built a brand new, terabuck priced stadium (which will be around for 20-30 years) 43 miles out of the city in a car-centric suburb.

I couldn't believe that the new 49ers stadium (in Santa Clara) cost a trillion dollars, so I looked it up. It cost $1.2 billion [1] - a "gigabuck" rather than a "terabuck." To put that in perspective, a single office building in nearby Palo Alto just sold for $300 million. [2]

Judging from the people driving up and down 101 with flags flying, the people wearing 49ers jerseys year-round in San Jose, the big BBQs hanging off the big trucks in the parking lot of games, and the truck commercials that litter televised football, the new car-centric location suits the football team nicely.

I'd be much more upset if the SF Giants decided to move out of the city!

[1] http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_23414780/49ers-new-stadium-cos... [2] http://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/news/2015/03/11/tibco-sel...

Re: Housing markets: The spectre haunting San Francisco

#16
post #13
post #6

>> "Maybe we simply come up with better ways to build and design cities..." Reading that, I can't help but think that the canonically best methods for how to "build and design cities" have been pretty well understood for decades [0], if not much longer [1]. We in America have just been doing it wrong on purpose for quite a while (perhaps in order to goose suburban construction and automobile sales?) So the problem is…

We're talking about a city that just built a brand new, terabuck priced stadium (which will be around for 20-30 years) 43 miles out of the city in a car-centric suburb.

[deleted]

Re: Housing markets: The spectre haunting San Francisco

#17
post #6

>> "Maybe we simply come up with better ways to build and design cities..." Reading that, I can't help but think that the canonically best methods for how to "build and design cities" have been pretty well understood for decades [0], if not much longer [1]. We in America have just been doing it wrong on purpose for quite a while (perhaps in order to goose suburban construction and automobile sales?) So the problem is…

Much of SF's urban planning and restrictionist attitude toward change is Jane Jacobs' work taken to its illogical extreme. (That's the book you just cited in [0]).

Jacobs led a reaction toward Modernist top-down planning practices and urban renewal, which eradicated vibrant and lively communities in places like her home neighborhood of West Village. She celebrated the chaos and the street ballet cultivated by a mix of building, business and resident types that organically layers in a complex ecosystem of behaviors over many, many decades. But today, many of the neighborhood she would have been proud to call home are exorbitantly expensive. What is West Village today, if not, another insanely expensive neighborhood gentrified many, many times over? What middle or lower-income family could call it home?

Likewise, the progressive left thought leadership here has taken Jacobs' ideas to such a protectionist extreme that it has exacerbated a pre-existing housing shortage over the past 40 years. Not more than a decade after her book was published, there were the Freeway and urban renewal resistance movements of the mid-1960s. They later evolved into a Skyscraper revolt of the 1970s and 1980s. In the late 1970s, the entire city passed strict rezoning laws to preserve existing residential densities and architectural styles.

There's a decent history here: http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/local/san_francisco.htm...

Re: Housing markets: The spectre haunting San Francisco

#18
Why doesn't someone raise a VC fund to build another Silicon Valley somewhere else? I personally don't think it involves that much magic. Just build a brand new giant university in a relatively cheap place where you've bought up a ridiculous amount of land. Hire a bunch of Ivy League professors to teach there and establish departments. Market heavily. Around the university, build tons of housing for students. Further out, mixed office parks and all the goodies that people like about SF... lots of selection of food, drink, culture, etc. and pay up front so that a reasonable percentage of this is there before anybody shows up. Throw in some partnerships with big name companies and some VC firms to locate some startups there.

Expensive, yes. Profitable, I would think so. Sign me up to live there when it's built. I'd love to work for a similar salary and save a good 30% of it per year (while still leaving healthy profit margins for the investors).

Note to downvoters: You do realize that the US government essentially provided this sort of start to Silicon Valley right, and that after that there were a couple now-billionaire real estate investors who provided a lot of the office space?

Re: Housing markets: The spectre haunting San Francisco

#19

Why doesn't someone raise a VC fund to build another Silicon Valley somewhere else? I personally don't think it involves that much magic. Just build a brand new giant university in a relatively cheap place where you've bought up a ridiculous amount of land. Hire a bunch of Ivy League professors to teach there and establish departments. Market heavily. Around the university, build tons of housing for students. Further…

If by "expensive" you mean "billions"... with profitability not nearly so assured.

You cannot simply build some of those things. Culture and good schools take decades to build.

Re: Housing markets: The spectre haunting San Francisco

#20
post #14

By San Francisco, I suspect they mean the San Francisco Bay area. While building in SF proper would decrease rents there, we can't have everyone who wants to move to the Bay Area live in San Francisco proper. Keeping this in mind, SF proper has a natural and inherent economic rent. So there is only so much pressure more building could relieve in SF proper. That said, I don't think many people would have much issue wi…

  The problem is the whole bay area is averse to build up.
Mostly true. However, that somewhat diminishes the degree by which SF especially is averse to construction, and more worryingly is averse to outsiders of all kinds - not just culturally misplaced Midwestern-ers - which is quite telling. Its a special brand of NIMBYism not found elsewhere.

The following comment is also from the Economist piece and sheds light on the kind of jaundiced eyes - I don't know what else one would call it - that long time SF residents view outsiders with. This sentiment is something I highly identify with and is rarely talked about, when the issue of SF housing is hotly debated.

The author is a Kansas City native who has moved to SF to wait tables :

  2) San Francisco can be elitist and exclusionary towards outsiders. Some 
  San Francisco residents look any non-Brooklyn part of the country with dismissal
  and/or disdain, creating a distinct form of self-defeating snobbery.

  I also felt this elitism when I would look at all the row houses in the Richmond
  and Sunset and how few where being torn down to build more efficient apartment 
  buildings. The message was, and is,- we have ours and we don't care about your 
  struggles.

  I also felt this excluding elitism when I would learn about legacy apartment
  dwellers who live in great locations and pay a fraction of the market price 
  because of government controls. The government kept rental prices artificially
  low for established renters and rental prices artificially high for outsiders 
  looking to move in and rent.

  The casual snobbery, the lack of new construction, and a preference for 
  established renters made the city feel unwelcoming to outsiders. Which is ironic,
  because most people I met in San Francisco were born and raised elsewhere.
[1] The rest of his comment is eminently readable too; I've truncated it because I felt I've hijacked this thread enough.

http://www.economist.com/comment/2360736#comment-2360736

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