Opportunity just presented itself. But it's dressed up as work.
I mean that seriously, someone can get paid very well streamlining recurring payments in India obviously. But it's going to be hard, like all things worth doing.
Ask HN: What is wrong with Reserve Bank of India?
31–40 of 88 posts
Re: Ask HN: What is wrong with Reserve Bank of India?
#32> Not one Indian payment processor (I've talked to a many) gives you the option to create recurring subscriptions. Not true, Paypal allows you to create recurring subscriptions in India, I already have two subscriptions which PayPal charges to my CC every month automatically . So, I'm questioning the premise of this post, PayPal certainly follows RBI regulations now, and if other payment processors are not doing it,…
Is the merchant established in India?
After a search, I see that companies need to obtain the necessary clearances from RBI (Indian or international) to charge recurring payments on credit cards. These are only granted to businesses with established track records. So, yes, a SaaS startup might not qualify for it. But as a consumer, I'm actually happy with this RBI policy.
Re: Ask HN: What is wrong with Reserve Bank of India?
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
In most cases where I made cancellations of a service, they disconnected immediately. Let's say that I had a subscription of cable broadband, and I have already paid till the 30th of June. I call them up on 18th of June and ask for a cancellation - then the cancellation happens by 19th of June whereas any deposit paid gets refunded a few weeks later. This sort of situations has happened to me multiple times in India.…
>Given that there are multiple SaaS companies running successfully in and out of India - some serving purely Indian clients - the rant of the OP is absolutely baseless. While I agree that this is RBI looking out for us, its not completely right to say that SaaS companies in India are not facing issues. Companies like Zoho are not able to target Indian companies because they can't invoke subscription billing.
Why not send their customers a monthly bill and cancel service if the user doesn't pay? The customers just set up a recurring monthly payment in their bank.
Re: Ask HN: What is wrong with Reserve Bank of India?
#34I don't see how unsecured CC is good for us. Credit card fraud raises national debt, makes your economy reliant on derivatives such as insurance and in the end you fall down. Maybe US economy could sustain derivative based approach because of it's size, but India would be in much worse position if something like 2008 happened here. Now, that said, this could be an opportinity for a startup, so stop complaining for a…
> Credit card fraud raises national debt, makes your economy reliant on derivatives such as insurance and in the end you fall down.
That's not how credit cards work. Credit card fraud is never shouldered by the country, only the banks and stores that fall victim to it. There's no insurance involved, it's a cost of accepting credit cards.
> Also SaaS has nothing to do with recurring CC. Don't you use postpaid services in India? Generate an invoice and give someone a week to pay. I mean if it's good enough for other service providers, why not for SaaS? Just use a shorter payment deadline.
A big factor of having a successful SaaS product is reducing friction and making it scale. Invoicing for an inexpensive reoccurring service does not scale and is a pain for both sides of the transaction.
Re: Ask HN: What is wrong with Reserve Bank of India?
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is the merchant established in India?
After a search, I see that companies need to obtain the necessary clearances from RBI (Indian or international) to charge recurring payments on credit cards. These are only granted to businesses with established track records. So, yes, a SaaS startup might not qualify for it. But as a consumer, I'm actually happy with this RBI policy.
You're happy to have no SaaS startups? Do you think there might be an alternative solution, that doesn't through the baby out with the bath water?
Re: Ask HN: What is wrong with Reserve Bank of India?
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Given that there are multiple SaaS companies running successfully in and out of India - some serving purely Indian clients - the rant of the OP is absolutely baseless. While I agree that this is RBI looking out for us, its not completely right to say that SaaS companies in India are not facing issues. Companies like Zoho are not able to target Indian companies because they can't invoke subscription billing.
Why not send their customers a monthly bill and cancel service if the user doesn't pay? The customers just set up a recurring monthly payment in their bank.
Yes, this is a workaround that is not directly supported by any payment gateway in India so far, which means you have to implement the entire thing yourself.
Re: Ask HN: What is wrong with Reserve Bank of India?
#37> Can you imagine where half the SaaS startups will be without recurring credit card subscriptions?
In Singapore or the United States. This is the route they take to avoid this problem.
> I really don't think it's about customer security
It is. Even with the security involved you frequently see people responding to the `You won a lottery from Coca Cola` and getting defrauded.
> Who are the right people to contact who can do something about this?
You're asking for a framework that would benefit SaaS startups. Fair enough. This will take time. Recurring billing is important, but what about contracts ? Did you know that you need a signed document for each customer that a SaaS company engages with in India ? It needs to be signed physically. Credit card charges are only the first step. From a broader perspective starting a company from here is still hell.
You either use a 3rd party provider that can set up recurring billing and move the money into an Indian bank account (like 2CO) or move the base of operations to Singapore / US so you can set that up. India is not startup friendly and this will be the case for some time to come. There is very little incentive to make things easier for the little fish.
Re: Ask HN: What is wrong with Reserve Bank of India?
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is the merchant established in India?
After a search, I see that companies need to obtain the necessary clearances from RBI (Indian or international) to charge recurring payments on credit cards. These are only granted to businesses with established track records. So, yes, a SaaS startup might not qualify for it. But as a consumer, I'm actually happy with this RBI policy.
The problem with that -> there is no well defined criteria for what "established track records".
Re: Ask HN: What is wrong with Reserve Bank of India?
#39Kudos to RBI for not supporting pre-authorized credit-card transactions. These are a stupid idea.
Consumers, never sign up for that crap, even if there are incentives.
If you are charged some extra fee, you will not be able to get it back, because you authorized the contract.
I almost got charged a superfluous $600 fee this way. Only, the foolhardy merchant sent me advance notice that this charge is coming to my credit card. So, of course, I promptly called my bank's security center and canceled the entire card. That's what it took to avoid the charge, which bounced, and the dickheads have been trying to collect that $600 from me ever since.
> Can you imagine where half the SaaS startups will be without recurring credit card subscriptions?
Yes, I can. They will have to send people bills by e-mail (or perhaps even snail mail) and await payment, like any other honest business. Then suspend the account if it is in arrears for more than X days.
Doh?
> but rather some "Babu" type mentality which is to ban the whole thing
Maybe Babu Banker smartly doesn't want his customer support people to deal with all the ensuing complaints, arising from a flood of people begging to have unwanted charges reversed.
Re: Ask HN: What is wrong with Reserve Bank of India?
#40I don't see how unsecured CC is good for us. Credit card fraud raises national debt, makes your economy reliant on derivatives such as insurance and in the end you fall down. Maybe US economy could sustain derivative based approach because of it's size, but India would be in much worse position if something like 2008 happened here. Now, that said, this could be an opportinity for a startup, so stop complaining for a…
> Credit card fraud raises national debt, makes your economy reliant on derivatives such as insurance and in the end you fall down. That's not how credit cards work. Credit card fraud is never shouldered by the country, only the banks and stores that fall victim to it. There's no insurance involved, it's a cost of accepting credit cards. > Also SaaS has nothing to do with recurring CC. Don't you use postpaid services…
> Credit card fraud is never shouldered by the country, only the banks and stores that fall victim to it.
That's a little near-sighted, I'm afraid. You don't think banks have a way to sock their debt to countries?
Heck, individuals do. On my income tax form here, there is a write-off field where I can put in losses from investments and such.