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Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality finished today

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121–130 of 173 posts

Re: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality finished today

#121
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just basic utilitarianism. What exactly are you objecting to? That 2 dust specks in 2 people's eyes isn't exactly twice as bad as 1 dust speck?

> What exactly are you objecting to? That some arbitrarily minimal amount of subjective pain can be presumed to be actually distinguishable from the general background unpleasantness of being human in the first place. Edit: Rephrased to remove gibberish resulting from temporary brain/keyboard disconnect.

It doesn't matter if it's "distinguishable". It's objectively worse. A pin prick might not be noticeable but a million is the worst torture imaginable.

Re: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality finished today

#122
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just basic utilitarianism. What exactly are you objecting to? That 2 dust specks in 2 people's eyes isn't exactly twice as bad as 1 dust speck?

> What exactly are you objecting to? That some arbitrarily minimal amount of subjective pain can be presumed to be actually distinguishable from the general background unpleasantness of being human in the first place. Edit: Rephrased to remove gibberish resulting from temporary brain/keyboard disconnect.

For some reason HN won't let me reply to Houshalter's post, but...

> objectively

How can pain be objective? The universe doesn't give a shit that some lumpy sacks of meat dislike certain experiences, and exactly the same action can be unpleasant for some people but pleasant for others. (BDSM enthusiasts, for example, often actively seek out experiences that other people would consider painful.)

Re: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality finished today

#123
post #122
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What exactly are you objecting to? That some arbitrarily minimal amount of subjective pain can be presumed to be actually distinguishable from the general background unpleasantness of being human in the first place. Edit: Rephrased to remove gibberish resulting from temporary brain/keyboard disconnect.

For some reason HN won't let me reply to Houshalter's post, but... > objectively How can pain be objective? The universe doesn't give a shit that some lumpy sacks of meat dislike certain experiences, and exactly the same action can be unpleasant for some people but pleasant for others. (BDSM enthusiasts, for example, often actively seek out experiences that other people would consider painful.)

>How can pain be objective?

Do you object that a pin prick is bad? Do you want to avoid being pricked?

Re: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality finished today

#124
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some reason HN won't let me reply to Houshalter's post, but... > objectively How can pain be objective? The universe doesn't give a shit that some lumpy sacks of meat dislike certain experiences, and exactly the same action can be unpleasant for some people but pleasant for others. (BDSM enthusiasts, for example, often actively seek out experiences that other people would consider painful.)

>How can pain be objective? Do you object that a pin prick is bad? Do you want to avoid being pricked?

>Do you object that a pin prick is bad?

That depends on the context. If it's acupuncture, for example, it can be quite good, even if the precise sensation is exactly the same as the otherwise unpleasant case of poking myself with a needle while sewing.

Re: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality finished today

#125
post #62

I'm seriously surprised at how many people here are fans of Yudkowsky, given his lack of any real productive output beyond thought experiments and fanfiction, the distinctly weird stuff he judges as right by taking his philosophy to the extremes (e.g. "it's better for one person to be tortured for fifty years than for an extremely large number of people to each get a speck of dust in their eye"), and the way he treat…

Yudkowsky is a good writer. That's all.

Terry Pratchett was a good writer too. (Probably even better.) And that's all you need to be.

Yudkowsky has, like old Goethe had, grander aspirations. We humour them for their literary output.

Re: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality finished today

#126
post #25

I read a bunch of chapters a few years ago and thought it was remarkably horrid.

Mileage varies! I'd like to affirm and congratulate your wise decision to stop reading at that point instead of continuing to torture yourself, and advise against anyone recommending parent to try again or go back. HPMOR is not going to be everyone's cup of tea!

I liked HPMOR, but mostly as a guilty pleasure.

For comparison, `Harry Potter and the Natural 20' is a better piece, because the author just wants us to have a good time, and is not constantly trying to prove how smart he is. (HPMOR reminded me a bit about Freakonomics in that respect. But Freakonomics is way worse.)

HPMOR could do with some radical editing, perhaps?

Re: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality finished today

#127
post #91
post #62

I'm seriously surprised at how many people here are fans of Yudkowsky, given his lack of any real productive output beyond thought experiments and fanfiction, the distinctly weird stuff he judges as right by taking his philosophy to the extremes (e.g. "it's better for one person to be tortured for fifty years than for an extremely large number of people to each get a speck of dust in their eye"), and the way he treat…

I'm seriously unsurprised to find the token why-does-anyone-like-Yudkowsky-he-doesn't-have-a-PhD-and-hasn't-even-saved-the-world-yet criticism in a thread about his Harry Potter fan fiction. He's a great writer, and that should be more than enough for the purposes of recommending a thing he wrote.

> I'm seriously unsurprised to find the token why-does-anyone-like-Yudkowsky-he-doesn't-have-a-PhD-and-hasn't-even-saved-the-world-yet criticism in a thread about his Harry Potter fan fiction.

I don't think that this was the kind of criticism that was expressed, but on the other hand it's always easier to fight a straw man.

Re: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality finished today

#128

I read a bunch of chapters a few years ago and thought it was remarkably horrid.

Your comment could be more valuable if it included your reasoning or suggestions for improvement.

I thought it was joyless and leaden and sacrificed the characters on the altar of the author's own obsessions.

At times I was wondering if the author had any familiarity with the material beyond a wikipedia (or tv tropes) summary.

Re: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality finished today

#129
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a very naive refutation of what the point was about Kuhn. First off, the notion that engineering "validates" science. What do you mean by validate? Do you mean successful engineering informed by a set of scientific principles, somehow, in a scientifically rigorous way, renders those principles true? As in, end of story true? Because most of mechanical engineering is done on the assumption that force e…

> I think this is a very naive refutation of what the point was about Kuhn. I don't deny that it's naive. > First off, the notion that engineering "validates" science. What do you mean by validate? Do you mean successful engineering informed by a set of scientific principles, somehow, in a scientifically rigorous way, renders those principles true? As in, end of story true? Nothing is end-of-story true except in math…

My point about Mercury was important because it shows that there is an appreciable level of "give" that a theory has before the scientific community agrees that there is something wrong with it. That level of give is socially determined. It does matter if the discoverer of the anomaly is a Cambridge phd or a crackpot with no credentials. The measurement instruments matter, and the fallability of those instruments play into the acceptance of the results, too. A Popperian viewpoint is somewhat naive because what constitutes a falsification is incredibly fraught! Read Lakatos. He models scientific progression as a series of research programs that have "hard cores" of belief that are protected by ancillary theories. In the event of a negative result, it's those theories that are investigated first. For example, is my telescope correct? Is the theory of light that informs my telescope correct? Is there a dark planet influencing things that I can't see? In hindsight, Mercury should have falsified Newton, because all of the falsifying observations were valid. But it didn't because reasons.

We (and by we I mean Popperians) want to believe that science is a series of universally positive logical assertions that can be cut down by a single negative observation, as logic would dictate. But we don't always know what the criteria are for successful negative observations. The criteria are less rigid and well defined than we would be willing to admit. They vary from community to community. Robert Milikan won the Nobel prize for measuring the charge of an electron with his brilliant oil drop experiment. Only problem? His measurement was wrong. As folks tried to repeat it, they deviated more and more from his original measurement, until many repetitions and many publications later they landed on the correct value. If you were to plot the "true" measurement for the charge of the electron against time, you would see something deviating very slowly from an arbitrary incorrect value to the correct one. You have to ask, how on earth is this possible? Bias, authority, imprecision over truth criteria—all at play. And I think it's this sociological fuzziness in play in many thousands of small ways that lead us to at least question the assumptions on which truth is founded.

Re: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality finished today

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's what the parent is referring to http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/LessWrong#Roko.27s_Basilisk . I'm in agreement regarding the absurdity and group think of Less Wrong, for reasons that aren't that relevant to this thread. That said, HPMOR is a fairly entertaining read, once you can get past the feeling that you're having an ideology forced on you through Harry's point of view. The book reminds me of things Ayn Rand…

That fairly hostile "article" is not accurate and the basilisk portion has already been responded to previously by Yudkowsky. See here: https://www.reddit.com/r/xkcd/comments/2myg86/xkcd_1450_aibo...

I have repeatedly asked for a list of the inaccuracies, since I substantially wrote, researched and cited the article http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Roko%27s_basilisk . Yudkowsky called me a LYING LIAR WHO LIES LIES LIES but the only claim of an actual lie he could come up with was where it said this was an incentive to donate to MIRI. Given that the original Basilisk post and the preceding post were literally about how to come up with lots of money to donate to MIRI (then SIAI), I'm not really willing to accept that as a lie.

For the claim of inaccuracies: that article is cited to the phrase level for good reason. If you're claiming inaccuracies, you're going to need actual details of why the cites are wrong.

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