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Web Development as a career – the realities

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Re: Web Development as a career – the realities

#51

Post by velox_io »

xupybd wrote: post #7
rifung wrote: post #6

"when asked what makes you a senior developer, they answer 'Because I have been coding for 5 years'." Maybe 5 years is insufficient, to be considered senior, but isn't the amount of time you've been coding what defines how senior you are? I get that technologies come and go and you have to stay up to date, but I would think that if someone were looking for a senior developer they would be looking for someone with a l…

Yeah I don't think I'd want to work for this guy. Keeping up is one thing. What makes a mature dev is language/tech agnostic.

I don't use any of the languages I used in college or uni. Does mean that I wasted loads of time and money?

No, the theory is much more valuable. Plus, it doesn't fall out of fashion the way frameworks do.

Re: Web Development as a career – the realities

#52

Post by falcolas »

wyclif wrote: post #12
aburan28 wrote: post #9

This is a debate I am having right now. Should I go the sysadmin route (hadoop clusters, etc), become a data scientist, or choose to get into cybersecurity. I have been leaning against choosing the web development career path

DevOps! ;-)

Trite, but accurate. This role is currently in high demand, with correspondingly good salaries. It's worth noting, though, that companies expect DevOps to do more more operational tasks than programming or procedure generation.

There aren't a lot of folks who understand how to administer a modern Linux system anymore; even companies using AWS or Rackspace or GAE will need someone versed in the arcane ways of System Administration as they grow.

Re: Web Development as a career – the realities

#53

Post by analog31 »

bbody wrote: post #44
analog31 wrote: post #41

To me, it's interesting that an article on Web development is hosted on Google Docs. This is not to point out an irony, but that like any technology, web development can be democratized pretty rapidly. The website for my side business is hosted on a similar platform. What was considered best in class 5 years ago is literally frowned upon now as the technologies and the standard of our applications have evolved rapidl…

My guess is that the author is afraid their website can't handle a HN view influx.

That's perfectly fair. They might also not want to use their employer's website for their personal writings. And using the right technology for the job is a good attribute.

Re: Web Development as a career – the realities

#54

Post by datashovel »

"The sad fact is that these people have not been aware of the realities of the industry they have been working in".

IMO the observations provided by the OP are not sound reasoning for the above conclusion.

In a recent gig where I was responsible for helping the company hire new developers I made a conscientious effort to avoid making such sweeping generalizations. Web development is one of the most diverse fields that I know of. So much so that in my mind you can't assume a qualified employee has ever touched the specific technologies you use in your stack.

I think the hiring practices described by the OP may be the dinosaur here.

Re: Web Development as a career – the realities

#55

Post by thejosh »

Okay, so he doesn't like that someone is a senior developer because they have been coding for 5 years. Fair enough, I guess.

Then they go onto say that you need to keep your technology current, and always be moving on. Okay....

So how does one become a senior in his position when you're always suppose to be moving on? By being a master with PHP? Not much has survived/been popular for >5 years that will make him happy.

Re: Web Development as a career – the realities

#56

Post by datashovel »

mkozlows wrote: post #34
philipn wrote: post #31

I like pretty much everything someone takes the time to write about development, but this rubbed me the wrong way. I'm not sure what it is exactly the author is trying to express here: that engineers need to stay current on new, hot technologies? Everyone knows that. But then he seems to deride people who, based on his interviewing, haven't used a in production / in a new project. You can't have it both ways. You nee…

Exactly what you said. The other part that got me was his "as an entry-level programmer, be prepared for grinding, endless tedium." Maybe that's how his workplace treats junior devs, but the reality is that a developer with very little experience but a lot of skill is someone who can add a lot of value, and can find a workplace where they'll be able to do that. If you try to make a great junior dev "pay their dues,"…

If this is the case, it sounds like OP does not adhere to "KISS" or "DRY" principles. On the contrary, anyone who is going to take up space in my office better not be engaging in "endless tedium". It's a sure sign they're not doing their job right.

Re: Web Development as a career – the realities

#57

Post by michaelchisari »

philipn wrote: post #31

I like pretty much everything someone takes the time to write about development, but this rubbed me the wrong way. I'm not sure what it is exactly the author is trying to express here: that engineers need to stay current on new, hot technologies? Everyone knows that. But then he seems to deride people who, based on his interviewing, haven't used a in production / in a new project. You can't have it both ways. You nee…

If you immediately write someone off because they work with technologies you don't work with[1] then you're doing it wrong.

I've had a hell of a time interviewing for just this reason. For the first set of interviews, I was emphasizing my experience with patterns as opposed to technologies. That didn't work. I was routinely dismissed, despite decades of industry experience.

When I decided to grind through the latest buzzwords, and build a few sample apps, that's when interviewers got much more positive.

It's not how I would have interviewed people, and I do agree with you and tptacek, but it was an eye opening experience on how to play the game.

Re: Web Development as a career – the realities

#58

Post by michaelchisari »

gaius wrote: post #19
rifung wrote: post #6

"when asked what makes you a senior developer, they answer 'Because I have been coding for 5 years'." Maybe 5 years is insufficient, to be considered senior, but isn't the amount of time you've been coding what defines how senior you are? I get that technologies come and go and you have to stay up to date, but I would think that if someone were looking for a senior developer they would be looking for someone with a l…

5 years! A career these days is 40-45 years. If you are "senior" in only 5 then where do you expect to go from there? 20 years experience, on a wide range of technologies, in a variety of roles, then we'll talk senior. Until then calling yourself "senior" just invites people not to take you seriously.

If you are "senior" in only 5 then where do you expect to go from there?

Our industry has a significant salary cap, since 27 year olds hold "senior positions", the 47 year olds aren't going to be making much more than them.

Re: Web Development as a career – the realities

#59

Post by aswanson »

michaelchisari wrote: post #57
philipn wrote: post #31

I like pretty much everything someone takes the time to write about development, but this rubbed me the wrong way. I'm not sure what it is exactly the author is trying to express here: that engineers need to stay current on new, hot technologies? Everyone knows that. But then he seems to deride people who, based on his interviewing, haven't used a in production / in a new project. You can't have it both ways. You nee…

If you immediately write someone off because they work with technologies you don't work with[1] then you're doing it wrong. I've had a hell of a time interviewing for just this reason. For the first set of interviews, I was emphasizing my experience with patterns as opposed to technologies . That didn't work. I was routinely dismissed, despite decades of industry experience. When I decided to grind through the latest…

HR folks and interviewing engineers don't get this. Idioms, best practices and methodologies should be sought in senior people. Buzzword hiring shops are likely full of bad people to work with. Its a signal of lack of intelligence and perspective organizationally.

Re: Web Development as a career – the realities

#60

Post by aswanson »

gaius wrote: post #19
rifung wrote: post #6

"when asked what makes you a senior developer, they answer 'Because I have been coding for 5 years'." Maybe 5 years is insufficient, to be considered senior, but isn't the amount of time you've been coding what defines how senior you are? I get that technologies come and go and you have to stay up to date, but I would think that if someone were looking for a senior developer they would be looking for someone with a l…

5 years! A career these days is 40-45 years. If you are "senior" in only 5 then where do you expect to go from there? 20 years experience, on a wide range of technologies, in a variety of roles, then we'll talk senior. Until then calling yourself "senior" just invites people not to take you seriously.

20 years in this industry invites people to treat you as a fossil and not even hire. Technology moves too fast, nobody cares what you did in 1995 anywhere near as much as what you did in 2013.
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