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We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

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Re: We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

#101

Post by gjm11 »

ajuc wrote: post #69
electromagnetic wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a testament to the differences between perception and reality. The NHS in the UK regularly gets poor ratings, in fact they're regularly flat out abysmal on national satisfaction scales, yet all out-patient questionnaire's regularly return with satisfaction rates >90%. People perceive the NHS as this behemoth incapable of performing, but the reality is that it performs amazingly well and provides one of the best…

I live in Poland, so maybe I'm not the right person to criticize your NHS, but from what my friends who live in GB say (and I have a lot of them:)) NHS is worse even than our polish NFZ. And man, does NFZ suck. It may be because in Poland NFZ is "tax and corruption" funded, so it has more money than only tax funded NHS. But - in Poland you goes to first contact doctor with regular cold, or head pain, or normal flu, a…

I live in the UK. When I get an appointment at my doctor's surgery, I see a doctor, not a nurse. (Unless it's for something that's done by nurses because their skills are more relevant than a doctor's, such as ear syringing.)

I've only once been to the doctor and gone away thinking I'd been deprived of treatment or tests that I needed; on that occasion, there didn't turn out to be anything wrong with me, so I'm not going to complain too loudly.

If your doctor is prescribing antibiotics for a cold or the flu, then s/he is incompetent and you should not be using this behaviour as evidence that your system is better than ours. Antibiotics do nothing for viral diseases like colds and flu.

(Note: for some of my life I have had private medical insurance paid for by my employer. I believe I have made use of it twice. The first time, there turned out to be nothing wrong with me. The second time, I think I did benefit from the private treatment, but I'd actually probably have been best off if I had been seen by a nurse first rather than my doctor.)

Re: We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

#102

Post by zackattack »

davidw wrote: post #94
zackattack wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It absolutely is germane to this site. Many of us are entrepreneurs, hacking capitalism. I think that "capitalist masters" is actually a succinct treatment of the state of things in the US, and challenge you to better articulate the nature of things so concisely.

All this is, is handwaving and opinions, though, because we can't very well agree to or define what this "capitalist masters" business is, can we? Is PG one of the capitalist masters? People are bound to have different opinions, and it really comes down to politics , which is poisonous for sites like this. Also, entrepreneurship isn't really "hacking capitalism" - it's part and parcel of it, and it seems to me that i…

I suppose it is a matter of perspective, but many people choose to be entrepreneurs because they don't want to work for people with more capital than them, hence the term "capitalist masters."

Re: We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

#103

Post by anamax »

Adam503 wrote: post #62
anamax wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So on that count Americans do appear to be richer, assuming of course they are getting equal average amounts of education and healthcare on their private purchases as the Europeans are getting on their tax dollars. That assumption is rather dodgy on a couple of points. One is that a lot of healthcare and education in the US is tax-supported. Another is that a rational person may choose to spend money on things othe…

The author of that so-called "cancer survival rates" BS is Betsy McCaughey, the woman who invented the "death panels" nonsense. Here's link to webpage with video of John Stewart unloading on Betsy McCaughey for 2 entire segments of the Daily Show because of the "death panels" http://www.mediaite.com/tv/finally-jon-stewart-gives-betsy-m...

Not so fast. She was quoting Lancet. Moreover, she's not the only source.

http://papers.nber.org/papers/w15213#fromrss

Re: We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

#104

Post by anamax »

pedrocr wrote: post #46
anamax wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So on that count Americans do appear to be richer, assuming of course they are getting equal average amounts of education and healthcare on their private purchases as the Europeans are getting on their tax dollars. That assumption is rather dodgy on a couple of points. One is that a lot of healthcare and education in the US is tax-supported. Another is that a rational person may choose to spend money on things othe…

>That assumption is rather dodgy on a couple of points. I thought so too, that is why I pointed it out. >One is that a lot of healthcare and education in the US is tax-supported. It may very well be but less of it is compared to Scandinavia so the point is the same. >Another is that a rational person may choose to spend money on things other than healthcare and education. Forcing them to spend it on healthcare and ed…

> >One is that a lot of healthcare and education in the US is tax-supported.

> It may very well be but less of it is compared to Scandinavia so the point is the same.

Not so fast. You wrote "It does then compare retail consumption which shouldn't include any of these things and thus be more objective." You otherwise assumed that health care is largely private in the US. It's not - it's about half public. Moreover, the public spending is concentrated on the poor. So, they're getting govt healthcare and buying big screen TVs.

> I could only find cancer deaths not survival rates once you do have cancer. In a lot of ways that is what matters and can mean better preventive care. On the other hand it adds a bunch of environmental factors.

As someone else has posted, the "not get cancer" stuff, which isn't due to health care, overmatches what happens when you get cancer, which is when health care matters.

Re: We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

#105

Post by Ras_ »

tianaco wrote: post #12

This confirms my brother's stories. He has a penchant for dating Scandinavian women--thusfar he's dated women from Denmark and Norway and has visited them and their families. Denmark was, of course, expensive by US standards. But upon returning from Norway, he remarked on the absurdly high cost of living. He made lasagna for his Norwegian girlfriend's family and it ended up costing around $60 US--just for the ingredi…

Here's one price comparison from Aftenposten at 9th October 2009.

Fårikål for 10, aka Mutton in cabbage for 10 people. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%A5rik%C3%A5l

Lamb meat (fresh), 4kg - 200 NOK / 34,7$

Cabbage, 4kg - 10 NOK / 1,7$

Pepper (whole), 40 grams - 7 NOK / 1,2$

Potatoes 2,5kg - 20 NOK / 3,5$

Total 41$ (for 10)

http://www.rema.no/multimedia/archive/00010/Aftenposten_0910...

McDonalds:

1 Filet O' Fish

1 Cheeseburger

1 Big Mac

2 Fries

1 Smoothie

1 Diet Coke

--------------------------

US $31.50

There's no universal minimum hourly wage in Norway, but generally the lowest amount paid seems to be around 100 NOK / 17$.

Re: We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

#106

Post by ajuc »

gjm11 wrote: post #101
ajuc wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Poland, so maybe I'm not the right person to criticize your NHS, but from what my friends who live in GB say (and I have a lot of them:)) NHS is worse even than our polish NFZ. And man, does NFZ suck. It may be because in Poland NFZ is "tax and corruption" funded, so it has more money than only tax funded NHS. But - in Poland you goes to first contact doctor with regular cold, or head pain, or normal flu, a…

I live in the UK. When I get an appointment at my doctor's surgery, I see a doctor, not a nurse. (Unless it's for something that's done by nurses because their skills are more relevant than a doctor's, such as ear syringing.) I've only once been to the doctor and gone away thinking I'd been deprived of treatment or tests that I needed; on that occasion, there didn't turn out to be anything wrong with me, so I'm not g…

About flu - when you have really serious consequences after a flu it's because some bacteria get a "free ride" on your immunity system compromised by a virus, so antibiotics are sometimes good thing to take when having a flu.

Still - I agree, doctors are prescribing them too often.

Anyway - Polish emigrants (immigrants from you POV:)) are commonly returning to Poland to go to doctor, and that means it's in some ways better, so two way ticket is worth it. Sometimes they return to go to private doctors because private healthcare is much cheaper in Poland, but they also return to go to regular NFZ, and there must be a reason for that (maybe immigrants in GB are given worse treatment?).

Anyway - http://polandian.home.pl/index.php/2008/09/24/english-patien...

Re: We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

#107

Post by masklinn »

scotch_drinker wrote: post #87
masklinn wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is really uncalled for - we do like a certain standard of living, but it doesn't mean we're brainwashed consumption machines […] > > Yes, most of my friends have playstations, flat screen TVs, and leased cars. See? That's how brainwashing works: you don't realize it. That's the point.

And it's just as easy to say that Europeans have been brainwashed to say things like all Americans are brainwashed to consume, consume, consume. It's a highly condescending argument on several levels to make sweeping statements like that about people who have different motivations for doing what they do. We might as well all be brainwashed, there's no proving we're not if that's your argument. The original poster in…

> And it's just as easy to say that Europeans have been brainwashed to say things like all Americans are brainwashed to consume, consume, consume.

Absolutely, and it's probably just as true.

Re: We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

#108

Post by [deleted] »

hop wrote: post #33
fnid wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, people do in fact starve in the united states every year. Edit: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr57/nvsr57_14.pdf Page 33 says roughly 2500 people die of malnutrition and nutritional deficiencies.

1) Malnutrition is not starvation due to not affording food. 2) Thats a whooping 0.0009 of all deaths. 3) If you are poor in America, you are most likely to die from heart disease from eating to many $5 Pizzas and other high caloric food because it's so cheap !

[deleted]

Re: We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

#109

Post by fnid »

tptacek wrote: post #86
Adam503 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then I guess this story from ABC Chicago is a big lie, and the food bank is really just gonna buy $5 Dominos pizzas for everyone? "CHICAGO (WLS) -- A food pantry on Chicago's far South Side says it has run out of food to help the needy. The Greater Chicago Food Depository says food banks throughout the city are in desperate need of donations. The economic downturn is making it harder for many to feed their families.…

What does a failing charity have to do with the cost of living in Chicago, or the US as a whole?

The point is not a failing charity, it's that demand for food assistance is going up. It's going up all over the nation, not just Chicago.

Re: We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

#110

Post by DanielBMarkham »

fnid wrote: post #19
hop wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lets not take it out of perspective - no one will starve here, this isn't Uganda, and Domino's has $5 Pizzas.

Actually, people do in fact starve in the united states every year. Edit: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr57/nvsr57_14.pdf Page 33 says roughly 2500 people die of malnutrition and nutritional deficiencies.

Which with 350 Million people comes out roughly to 7 in every million people.

Meanwhile 1 out of 218 die from falling, 1 in 63,000 from legal execution, and 1 in 350,000 from a fireworks discharge.

So you've got a 30,000 times greater chance of dying from falling down than from hunger in the United States.

Hardly a statistically significant problem, especially since in every community I know of, multiple sources of free food are available. Sometimes dozens of sources. You could argue at these rates these are "accidental" starvations and not due to prevailing societal conditions -- perhaps due to mental illness, bad weather, age, etc.

http://athletesheart.blogspot.com/2009/10/interesting-facts-...

That doesn't mean that any death is okay, just that context is important.

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