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We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

nytimes.com

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Re: We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

#61

Post by Adam503 »

lupin_sansei wrote: post #25
electromagnetic wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a testament to the differences between perception and reality. The NHS in the UK regularly gets poor ratings, in fact they're regularly flat out abysmal on national satisfaction scales, yet all out-patient questionnaire's regularly return with satisfaction rates >90%. People perceive the NHS as this behemoth incapable of performing, but the reality is that it performs amazingly well and provides one of the best…

> one of the best health care in the world Are you serious? Check the poor cancer survival rates in UK compared to the rest of world: "Since that time, cancer survival rates in England have been steadily improving for but we (Department of Health spokesman) accept that there is further work to do to reduce the gap between us and the rest of northern and western Europe and America." http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7…

The author of that so-called "cancer survival rates" BS is Betsy McCaughey, the woman who invented the "death panels" nonsense.

Here's link to webpage with video of John Stewart unloading on Betsy McCaughey for 2 entire segments of the Daily Show because of the "death panels"

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/finally-jon-stewart-gives-betsy-m...

Re: We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

#62

Post by Adam503 »

anamax wrote: post #38
pedrocr wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The study that compares the US to Europe (linked in another commend) does these comparisons: - Compare GDP between US and Europe and show that US is higher per capita on average. No debate there. - Compare private consumption between the US and Europe, specifically stating that it does not control for healthcare and education. From page 14: Different countries’ choices of public commitment influence, through taxation…

> So on that count Americans do appear to be richer, assuming of course they are getting equal average amounts of education and healthcare on their private purchases as the Europeans are getting on their tax dollars. That assumption is rather dodgy on a couple of points. One is that a lot of healthcare and education in the US is tax-supported. Another is that a rational person may choose to spend money on things othe…

The author of that so-called "cancer survival rates" BS is Betsy McCaughey, the woman who invented the "death panels" nonsense.

Here's link to webpage with video of John Stewart unloading on Betsy McCaughey for 2 entire segments of the Daily Show because of the "death panels"

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/finally-jon-stewart-gives-betsy-m...

Re: We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

#63

Post by Adam503 »

anamax wrote: post #38
pedrocr wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The study that compares the US to Europe (linked in another commend) does these comparisons: - Compare GDP between US and Europe and show that US is higher per capita on average. No debate there. - Compare private consumption between the US and Europe, specifically stating that it does not control for healthcare and education. From page 14: Different countries’ choices of public commitment influence, through taxation…

> So on that count Americans do appear to be richer, assuming of course they are getting equal average amounts of education and healthcare on their private purchases as the Europeans are getting on their tax dollars. That assumption is rather dodgy on a couple of points. One is that a lot of healthcare and education in the US is tax-supported. Another is that a rational person may choose to spend money on things othe…

Here's the link with the original "cancer rates" article

"U.S. Cancer Care Is Number One No. 596

Thursday, October 11, 2007

by Betsy McCaughey

During this presidential election season, candidates are urging Americans to radically overhaul our “broken” health care system. Before accepting the premise that the system is broken, consider the impressive evidence from the largest ever international study of cancer survival rates..."

More lies from proven liar Betsy McCaughey

http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba596

Re: We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

#64

Post by masklinn »

coffeemug wrote: post #53
Confusion wrote: post #50

These comparisons are obviously bogus. If Norway is worse than the US, why do they have a good public healthcare system and a much lower poverty rate? And don't get me started on that slur about 'drug users crowding the streets'. Please, check your facts. About 'frugal living' and 'underpaid teachers': perhaps we feel rich, precisely because we are satisfied with our ten year old toaster and our home-made lunch. Part…

We don't feel the need to consume-consume-consume, and we certainly aren't brainwashed. This is really uncalled for - we do like a certain standard of living, but it doesn't mean we're brainwashed consumption machines born to satisfy an economic purpose as laid out by the federal reserve. Yes, most of my friends have playstations, flat screen TVs, and leased cars. Some of this stuff is financed by debt. But they do l…

> This is really uncalled for - we do like a certain standard of living, but it doesn't mean we're brainwashed consumption machines […] > > Yes, most of my friends have playstations, flat screen TVs, and leased cars.

See? That's how brainwashing works: you don't realize it. That's the point.

Re: We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

#65

Post by masklinn »

AlisdairO wrote: post #51
lupin_sansei wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you supply some sources to back up your claims, particularly about the crime and social problems in Norway vs the US, and also work hours.

Just off the top of my head, 25 days off a year (not including public holidays) is the norm in Britain, compared to, what, 5-10 in the US? The attitude towards work is very different in Europe, so it wouldn't surprise me at all if working hours were lower.

> Just off the top of my head, 25 days off a year (not including public holidays) is the norm in Britain

I think the EU mandates 4 or 5 weeks (not sure which), in the US as far as I know there is no federal mandates. Also, paid sick days.

Re: We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

#66

Post by Adam503 »

lupin_sansei wrote: post #32
bilbo0s wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh . . . Had to call this one. Full Disclosure: Cancer Researcher here. I looked into how to analyze data over time to elicit better outcomes in a former life. Cancer is a hard problem, REALLY hard. Hematological Cancers as well, super hard. It is less than wise to judge a health care system by its ability to treat cancer. Literally, there are often times when a patient is being attended solely for the purposes of le…

I think it's fair enough to ask how come a country that claims to have one of the best healthcare systems in the world (the UK) has such bad cancer survival rates?

I think it fair to show the video of John Stewart destroying Betsy McCaughey, author of both the death panel lies and now this cancer survival rate lies.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/finally-jon-stewart-gives-betsy-m...

http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba596

"...Two interesting things about this Daily Show interview with GOP health care demagogue Betsy McCaughey: (1) It was cut off in the middle, with Stewart directing viewers immediately after to the website, where the unedited second part would be waiting; and (2) Stewart patiently, politely, and firmly smacked down her exaggerations, misrepresentations and lies. I hope every other newscaster in America was watching...."

Re: We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

#67

Post by berntb »

tragiclos wrote: post #8

The Timbro study that makes up the bulk of the author's argument can be found at http://www.timbro.se/bokhandel/pdf/9175665646.pdf . Most of the numbers are based on the US economy circa 1995-2000. Bonus points for equating the economic prosperity of Spain with the alcoholic content of their drinks.

Considering the high prices of alcohol in Sweden, it is quite effective for the local population to compare that metric.

Re: We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

#68

Post by michael_dorfman »

Adam503 wrote: post #59
michael_dorfman wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Scandinavia, drugs don't ensure that some people are poor. Some people choose to spend the $30 on drugs instead of pizza, of course-- but there really is no poverty here.

Let me ask again. Are you guys saying this video ABC report from Chicago about A food bank Chicago emptied of food is a lie? Do know that unemployment runs 70% among people with partial disabilities trying to find work? What do you think these perpetually unemployed partially disabled people are doing, living off their trust funds?

I think you misread me. When I said "there's no poverty here", I was speaking of Scandinavia.

Here in Norway, the perpetually unemployed partially disabled people are well looked after, and can afford the $30 pizzas as well as anybody else.

Re: We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

#69

Post by ajuc »

electromagnetic wrote: post #5
dschobel wrote: post #2

It's fascinating to see how even a nation with a free media can still have total buy-in to an entirely delusional self-image. Scary stuff.

It's a testament to the differences between perception and reality. The NHS in the UK regularly gets poor ratings, in fact they're regularly flat out abysmal on national satisfaction scales, yet all out-patient questionnaire's regularly return with satisfaction rates >90%. People perceive the NHS as this behemoth incapable of performing, but the reality is that it performs amazingly well and provides one of the best…

I live in Poland, so maybe I'm not the right person to criticize your NHS, but from what my friends who live in GB say (and I have a lot of them:)) NHS is worse even than our polish NFZ. And man, does NFZ suck.

It may be because in Poland NFZ is "tax and corruption" funded, so it has more money than only tax funded NHS.

But - in Poland you goes to first contact doctor with regular cold, or head pain, or normal flu, and you have 100% chance of seing the doctor, and he probably will right away prescribe you some antibiotics and send you to tthe blood tests.

In GB, I've heard, the first contact doctor is nurse in reality most of the times. And he/she will just prescribe you the painkillers and send you away, till it's something more serious.

Re: We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

#70

Post by arihelgason »

anamax wrote: post #37
forensic wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you're taking a middle class perspective poor people in the US can't afford pizza. poor people in scandinavia don't really exist.

> poor people in scandinavia don't really exist. Poor Scandinavian-Americans don't exist either. (Poverty is not equally distributed.)

This could be a reference to the (possibly apocryphal) anecdote that Milton Friedman was told that "we have no poverty in Sweden."

To which he responded "that's interesting. We have no poverty among Swedish-Americans either."

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