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When Nerds Collide (2014)

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Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#331

Post by philwelch »

anon1385 wrote: post #192
reitanqild wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a sad case of people proving that once the tables got turned the once who once was oppressed will happily deny others the right of free speech. And, the majority, the ones who care less about right and wrong as long as they are on the correct side, will happily follow along, just as they did when Catholics ruled, just as they did when White Straight ruled.

The right to free speech doesn't mean the right to not face any social consequences for your speech.

It's interesting which way the double standard swings on this; for instance, the McCarthy-era Hollywood blacklist was exactly the same kind of "social consequence".

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#332

Post by ehaliewicz2 »

neilk wrote: post #167
MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you got it backwards. The "dongle thing" is about a feminist bully, not about two guys making a harmless joke. The consensus is that Adria was the problem here, how anyone could come to a different conclusion is beyond me.

I'm willing to stack my geek credentials against anyone, and I'm not in your consensus. Lots of people aren't. You might be inside a filter bubble. I don't agree with what Adria did, in that she shamed these guys on Twitter, and furthermore, she's doubled down on some conspiracy theories afterwards. And maybe she has an itchy trigger finger on what might constitute a hostile environment. But, the issue of hostile env…

If I remember correctly, she made a joke about male genitalia on twitter just a few days beforehand.

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#333

Post by philwelch »

tedks wrote: post #191
hyperion2010 wrote: post #26

This article is so spot on and covers many of the things that have bothered me for years about people who try to join nerd communities and then immediately start complaining about "inappropriate behavior" (eg the dongle thing). Yes, there are cases where there is real inappropriate behavior surrounding positions of power in corporate or workplace settings, but in the community at large and in the communal and public…

It's definitely spot-on. I think it has a great example of anti-feminist/male-privileged mindset: > Desire for civility and freedom from objectification is "censorship" > Wanting to not support misogynists/rape apologists/rape denialists/sexual predators is worse than the soviets > My fear of social ostracism is as or more valid than your fear of being raped > My chosen "identities" are as important as the assigned s…

The article we're discussing, which you consider "a great example of anti-feminist/male-privileged mindset", is written by a woman. Perhaps she's some sort of self-hating misogynistic woman in your eyes, but she is a woman in technology.

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#334

Post by [deleted] »

tedks wrote: post #191
hyperion2010 wrote: post #26

This article is so spot on and covers many of the things that have bothered me for years about people who try to join nerd communities and then immediately start complaining about "inappropriate behavior" (eg the dongle thing). Yes, there are cases where there is real inappropriate behavior surrounding positions of power in corporate or workplace settings, but in the community at large and in the communal and public…

It's definitely spot-on. I think it has a great example of anti-feminist/male-privileged mindset: > Desire for civility and freedom from objectification is "censorship" > Wanting to not support misogynists/rape apologists/rape denialists/sexual predators is worse than the soviets > My fear of social ostracism is as or more valid than your fear of being raped > My chosen "identities" are as important as the assigned s…

[deleted]

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#335

Post by LordHumungous »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #302
LordHumungous wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heres a dirty little secret about "real nerds". As far as bullying and exclusion goes, they give as good as they get. I knew some so called nerds in high school who were picked on. I knew more who socially isolated themselves by being arrogant jerks to everyone else, especially those they considered to be of lower intelligence. I dont fit the real nerd stereotype. I played football and I don't like dnd. I resent the…

> I knew more who socially isolated themselves by being arrogant jerks to everyone else, especially those they considered to be of lower intelligence. I knew people like that too, though I can't tell how often it was because they were just jerks with technical interests, and how much it was a defense mechanism, trying to maintain a little bit of self-esteem while being constantly bullied. > I dont fit the real nerd s…

>I knew people like that too, though I can't tell how often it was because they were just jerks with technical interests, and how much it was a defense mechanism, trying to maintain a little bit of self-esteem while being constantly bullied.

Yeah well 9 times out of 10 the "jocks" who bullied the "nerds" were doing it out of a deep seated insecurity too. Just because someone self identifies with a subculture does not mean they are any less capable of being an asshole.

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#336

Post by reitanqild »

modfodder wrote: post #230
reitanqild wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I understand what was being said. But in my experience many groups say this but in fact don't even come close to actually achieving it. Groups of white males have said this for a long time, ...right in front of our very noses at this moment is something very interesting: me atleast I don't have a clue what gender most nicks here on HN belong to. And I don't care. The same way I don't care about the gender of our UX…

That's great. If there were more people like you in positions of power we probably wouldn't be having this conversation. I'm not implying that anyone of these particular commenters are sexist or bigots, or aren't making decisions solely based on merit. I'm saying that we as a group, be that either widely defined as humans in general or narrowly defined as a certain group of nerds, tend to not notice our biases when w…

Totally agree.

> I myself try to disregard my learned biases, but often don't realize I failed until after the fact.

Part of being human and why we should be very careful to judge. I'm in the same place.

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#337

Post by Klockan »

tedks wrote: post #292
Thriptic wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If progressive values are not hacker values, the hacker values will be, should be, and must be destroyed. To presume that every aspect of your value system is superior to every aspect of everyone else's value systems is both astoundingly arrogant and also authoritarian. Improvement of societal values can't come about without minority groups being allowed to practice alternative value systems, as abhorrent as they m…

Progressive values are in fact the minority. Most people on hacker news (for example, but also in the world at large) do not believe women have rights to bodily integrity, to be respected as people rather than sex objects, and to be comfortable in their communities. This thread from yesterday is a great reminder of that, to anyone who thinks HN is some egalitarian utopia: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9168299…

Where are all the misogynists in said thread? All I see is a bunch of nerds arguing about semantics. Just because some of them don't think that a certain behavior constitutes rape doesn't mean that they actually condone said behavior. I believe that almost everyone in that thread thinks that the man should be put behind bars for a long time.

What I (and probably many other nerds) don't get is why feminists are so adamant in calling all sex related crimes "rape", does it really matter if a person gets X years in prison for sexual abuse instead of X years in prison for rape? And how is it obvious that arguing for one of the sides equals being a misogynist who thinks that women shouldn't have rights to bodily integrity?

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#338

Post by spiritplumber »

Lawtonfogle wrote: post #141
bad_user wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My disdain has always been for social rules that never made sense - i.e. in order to be liked, you have to look good, dress in a certain way, talk in a certain way, belong to certain groups . I don't want to be different, it isn't my desire to be seen as a geek, however it pisses me off that people judge books by their covers and in order for me to follow rules, well, those rules have to make sense. For the project I…

> I do not have fashion preferences, all that I desire is for the clothes I wear to be comfortable. And I don't give a fuck about the company's dress code, because in the grand scheme of things, they hired me to produce value and not to look good. I grew up with the same thoughts and just didn't care about dress. Only when studying psychology did I realize why we judge a book by its cover, and have begun trying to in…

I just don't like the symbolism of wearing a noose around my neck. Suits are OK, choking hazards not so much (and yes, the normal necktie knot can choke you).

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#339

Post by hypatiadotca »

anon4 wrote: post #120
hueving wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some scumbag got a guy fired by publicly shaming him on twitter for making a joke to his friend in a private conversation. That is one of the most hostile, weird, and hateful ways I've ever seen someone behave. It's a perfect example of counter-productive, oppressive behavior that was outlined in this article. Do you think getting that guy fired is going to suddenly change his sense of humor? Not likely. If anything,…

From http://www.esquire.co.uk/culture/books/7933/exclusive-extrac... which was linked here not long ago: I asked Hank if he found himself behaving differently since the incident. Had it altered how he lived his life? “I distance myself from female developers a little bit now,” he replied. “I’m not as friendly. There’s humour, but it’s very mundane. You just don’t know. I can’t afford another Donglegate.” So I guess i…

Honestly I'm pretty happy if dudes like that stay the fuck away from me. Sounds like a win-win!

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#340

Post by hypatiadotca »

paul wrote: post #49

This article is delightfully thoughtful. Her other post is also worth reading: https://medium.com/@maradydd/okay-feminism-its-time-we-had-a... It makes me wonder though how much nerd culture is driven by forms of autism. Those wishing to end oppression women should be careful that they are not instead perpetuating the oppression of autistic people.

There's a thoughtful treatment of this issue on the Geek Feminism wiki: http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Autism_is_to_blame
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