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When Nerds Collide (2014)

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Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#41

Post by Buge »

Kalium wrote: post #37
djcapelis wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I happen to agree with him. Her, for whatever it's worth.

For an interesting experiment, show this article to the sort of people it's about. Don't tell them the author is an autistic woman. Observe their reactions. Then provide them that background and repeat observations.

I realized she was a woman from this line:

>There are progressive, libertarian, anarchist, moderate, communist, conservative, liberal, and reactionary hackers, just the same as can be said for women, bisexuals, Texans, or engineers who aren’t hackers.

The sentence only really makes sense if the final 4 traits are describing the author.

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#42

Post by spiritplumber »

misuba wrote: post #23

But the proof can't be made. If you’re conditioned to feel like an outsider, you’re going to believe the rejection is always lurking around the corner, and the acceptance is never real, never complete. You’ll remain in sullen sureness that outside is where you’ve been placed — or you’ll keep testing , poking and prodding for the thing you could do that’s horrible enough to prove that you were never really welcome. Th…

Definitely the case over here.

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#43

Post by djcapelis »

Buge wrote: post #41
Kalium wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For an interesting experiment, show this article to the sort of people it's about. Don't tell them the author is an autistic woman. Observe their reactions. Then provide them that background and repeat observations.

I realized she was a woman from this line: >There are progressive, libertarian, anarchist, moderate, communist, conservative, liberal, and reactionary hackers, just the same as can be said for women, bisexuals, Texans, or engineers who aren’t hackers. The sentence only really makes sense if the final 4 traits are describing the author.

Meredith is a hacker under any definition. So that trait definitely is not descriptive of her.

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#45

Post by icelancer »

I am loathe to post an "I agree" comment here... but damn. This is a very well-said article and one I have tried to express many times but have failed over and over.

The "invaders" who claim to be socially liberal are actually authoritarian in nature, completely hypocritical by pushing so-called "tolerance" on those who received none by society's "normal."

Just a powerful essay.

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#46

Post by sanxiyn »

RKoutnik wrote: post #29

I was shocked, visibly, when I found out that no one at the first startup I worked at played tabletop RPGs. I was shocked again when they looked down on me because I did. In a city that prides itself on "weirdos", I was the wrong kind of weird. In college I poured over Steven Levy's Hackers , hoping one day I would be able to meet the tech elite. I jumped at the first chance I got to work out here, hoping I'd finally…

Yes, you are going to the wrong ones.

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#47

Post by modfodder »

Kalium wrote: post #35
modfodder wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"we aren't against diversity"..."they should make their bones, same as we did" sounds like it could come from any all white male institution. The problem is, we as humans prefer to surround ourselves with people just like us, sometimes that means same race, sometimes same religion, or gender, or political views, and often it happens subconsciously, choosing the person closer to our ideal without us even realizing we'…

> "we aren't against diversity"..."they should make their bones, same as we did" sounds like it could come from any all white male institution. It could... if you choose to cast it that way. It could also come from any self-selecting group where the selection process is part of the group identity. Group identity isn't just a matter of waking up one day, declaring yourself a member of $GROUP, and $GROUP being obliged…

I don't disagree, but quite often $GROUP lies to itself about who and how it accepts those into the $GROUP.

And let's be honest, this isn't a problem if the $GROUP is a bunch of people hanging out in their living room or grabbing a beer once a week, but it does become a problem when the $GROUP is making hiring decisions or when $GROUP decides to harass someone online. Then it is those subconscious selectors that define the group and its members more than the how the $GROUP thinks it defines itself.

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#48

Post by Animats »

bronson wrote: post #32
RKoutnik wrote: post #29

I was shocked, visibly, when I found out that no one at the first startup I worked at played tabletop RPGs. I was shocked again when they looked down on me because I did. In a city that prides itself on "weirdos", I was the wrong kind of weird. In college I poured over Steven Levy's Hackers , hoping one day I would be able to meet the tech elite. I jumped at the first chance I got to work out here, hoping I'd finally…

Yeah, that's SF. It's 80% posers, especially at meetups. The minority that are doing interesting things are, of course, not so easy to find. Work hard on your passions and eventually you'll meet likeminded people. (that's true no matter where you're located) Just be glad you're there now, and not being forced by management to go to glitzy web parties in 1999. Those were insufferable.

SF has been 80% posers for decades. That's why the art and music scenes in SF are so bad. In NYC, they tell you if you suck. In LA, if you suck they don't call you back. In SF, there's no judgment or criticism, and you can suck forever.

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#49

Post by paul »

This article is delightfully thoughtful. Her other post is also worth reading: https://medium.com/@maradydd/okay-feminism-its-time-we-had-a...

It makes me wonder though how much nerd culture is driven by forms of autism. Those wishing to end oppression women should be careful that they are not instead perpetuating the oppression of autistic people.

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#50

Post by LordHumungous »

>Programming is an inherently constructivist discipline. A constructivist is like the archetypal Missourian: “Show me!”

Many "hackers" are unable to apply this principle to the field of business. They don't understand business, they aren't good at it, and therefore they see it as nothing more than empty headed self-promoters jockeying for social status, just like those "cool kids" who picked on them in high school. They do not understand that the prime directive of a business is to make money, and that doing so is always more important than quality engineering. Given that most hackers work for businesses, I think this is a large blind spot that leads to a lot of bitterness and feelings of exclusion.

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