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When Nerds Collide (2014)

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Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#301

Post by TeMPOraL »

BrainInAJar wrote: post #297
TeMPOraL wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think the difference there that goth is a subculture, while tech and software development is a job. And here I think is the crux of the problem; it's what the article was about. Tech became mainstream, and attracted people who look at it as a job. From the point of view of us native nerds, we became colonized and are being pushed back from the thing we built as our little place in the universe where we would feel…

Stop trying to make yourself one dimensional. Existence precedes essence. You aren't a nerd, you're just a dude, that does nerdy things sometimes. The things you do aren't you, and you aren't them. If other people want to do the things you do it does not detract from your enjoyment of them one iota, unless you're so self absorbed you can't enjoy it without exclusivity. grow the fuck up.

As I tried to explain in comments downthread, it's not about being detracted from enjoyment because new people are arriving to the scene. It's about that what was once a refuge from bullies is no more, because the safe harbour became mainstream interest, and now "weirdos" are being pushed back again by the society that requires you to conform to its definition of "normal life" and "normal interests".

> grow the fuck up.

I always say I'm 5 years old, and I like it that way.

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#302

Post by TeMPOraL »

LordHumungous wrote: post #276
hexadecima wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand this US vs THEM mentality. Yes, you were the nerd that might have been excluded from other people's world because they didn't deem you 'cool enough'. But now you are excluding others from joining your world. Are you not as bad as the people who made you feel displaced? Why not take the stance that you can be better?

Heres a dirty little secret about "real nerds". As far as bullying and exclusion goes, they give as good as they get. I knew some so called nerds in high school who were picked on. I knew more who socially isolated themselves by being arrogant jerks to everyone else, especially those they considered to be of lower intelligence. I dont fit the real nerd stereotype. I played football and I don't like dnd. I resent the…

> I knew more who socially isolated themselves by being arrogant jerks to everyone else, especially those they considered to be of lower intelligence.

I knew people like that too, though I can't tell how often it was because they were just jerks with technical interests, and how much it was a defense mechanism, trying to maintain a little bit of self-esteem while being constantly bullied.

> I dont fit the real nerd stereotype. I played football and I don't like dnd. I resent the notion that I am some kind of brogrammer picking on the poor helpless nerds. Who is really picking on who here?

I don't think that was the message coming from the article. Most of the hardcore nerd circles I know would happily accept you and wouldn't mind you like football and are not into DnD. But usually this doesn't work the other way - your DnD-playing football-agnostic nerd gets picked on and called a "nolife".

> If it truly is about the code, as the author states, then why should this bs about authentic nerd culture even matter?

Because the author states that the nerd culture is (among other things) about "the code over status games".

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#303

Post by maradydd »

Kalium wrote: post #285
Buge wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I meant the 4 in the list (women, bisexuals, Texans, engineers).

The last item is "engineers who aren't hackers". I have no idea if Meredith is bisexual or Texan.

It's probably most accurate to say that gender isn't a significant factor in my calculus of attraction. I was born in Houston, though, and lived there for 23 years.

For what it's worth, I don't recall intending anything in particular with that list of adjectives, but you never really know about authorial intent.

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#304

Post by johnny22 »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #229
hexadecima wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand this US vs THEM mentality. Yes, you were the nerd that might have been excluded from other people's world because they didn't deem you 'cool enough'. But now you are excluding others from joining your world. Are you not as bad as the people who made you feel displaced? Why not take the stance that you can be better?

Because they're not joining, they're invading , and we have all the reasons to feel afraid that we will get pushed out again. And honestly, I'm fine with the fact that tech has grown beyond the culture that created it. I'm uncomfortable that what this "extended tech industry" produces is often a bastardization of what we so loved and cared. I get it, different priorities, I'm fine with that too. What I am not fine wi…

I grew up as nerd and was bullied both emotionally and physically (although less so physically than others probably). Since i have have some small understanding of what it's like to feel excluded, I welcome all folks involved in social justice into our nerdy communities.

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#305

Post by LordHumungous »

tedks wrote: post #191
hyperion2010 wrote: post #26

This article is so spot on and covers many of the things that have bothered me for years about people who try to join nerd communities and then immediately start complaining about "inappropriate behavior" (eg the dongle thing). Yes, there are cases where there is real inappropriate behavior surrounding positions of power in corporate or workplace settings, but in the community at large and in the communal and public…

It's definitely spot-on. I think it has a great example of anti-feminist/male-privileged mindset: > Desire for civility and freedom from objectification is "censorship" > Wanting to not support misogynists/rape apologists/rape denialists/sexual predators is worse than the soviets > My fear of social ostracism is as or more valid than your fear of being raped > My chosen "identities" are as important as the assigned s…

>Wanting to not support misogynists/rape apologists/rape denialists/sexual predators

"Rape apologist" is the left wing version of "terrorist sympathizer"

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#306

Post by misuba »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #300
misuba wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I hear you saying is you personally identify with what you perceive as intellectual honesty, what you perceive as rationality, and the freedom to say whatever you want without worrying whether listeners will like it. The trouble with such identifications, though, is they can lead to logical errors that make your life a lot worse, by causing you to feel as though a question about your intellectual honesty, ration…

> The trouble with such identifications, though, is they can lead to logical errors that make your life a lot worse, by causing you to feel as though a question about your intellectual honesty, rationality, or empathy is in fact a personal attack. This happens entirely unconsciously, and repairing it can seriously suck. I agree. Thanks for a reminder. > But that might just be tedious; instead I will say that in my ow…

What is the specific thing you feel you're being forced to do?

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#307

Post by hsod »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #270
copsarebastards wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you—she wasn’t an outsider trying to join the group. She’s a real nerd, culturally. But this is exactly what I (and many nerds) don't care about. I don't care whether Adria Richards is in the in-group or the out-group. I care about her ideas. I care about her code. So far I’ve only seen her ideas, and her ideas include feeling like her life was threatened because of a “dongle” joke. That’s not a scathing…

Talking of "false", you know that you just made up the bit about Adria feeling her life was threatened by the dongle jokes, right? She tweeted that it was " not cool" and against the code of conduct. To be clear, she was literally, actually, threatened with death (amongst other things) after it blew up in the media. I'm kind of intrigued what the next, easily disproved lie is going to be on this topic.

"“You felt fear?” I asked.

“Danger,” she said. “Clearly my body was telling me, ‘You are unsafe.’”

[...]

“You talked about danger,” I said. “What were you imagining might…?”

“Have you ever heard that thing, men are afraid that women will laugh at them and women are afraid that men will kill them?” she replied. “So. Yeah.”

from http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/feb/21/internet-s...

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#308

Post by kaitai »

theorique wrote: post #216
kaitai wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, blfr... but: If people like hyperion2010 or others want an abrasive culture, why can't they take what they dish? Why is it so ok for someone to call me a c*&t but I can't say the words "male privilege"?

The one is a personal insult that can be brushed off. The other is an accusation of unfairness in the entire system. Are you surprised that the system (and the people within it) reacts to broad-based accusations about its structure, rather differently from how it reacts to angry beefs between individuals?

On a structural perpetuation-of-the-organism level, no: you make a good point. On a personal level, I do find it weird that people take critiques of a system more personally than personal insults. We were all born into a system that we didn't create; we reshape it through the actions in our lives.

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#309

Post by kaitai »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #229
hexadecima wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand this US vs THEM mentality. Yes, you were the nerd that might have been excluded from other people's world because they didn't deem you 'cool enough'. But now you are excluding others from joining your world. Are you not as bad as the people who made you feel displaced? Why not take the stance that you can be better?

Because they're not joining, they're invading , and we have all the reasons to feel afraid that we will get pushed out again. And honestly, I'm fine with the fact that tech has grown beyond the culture that created it. I'm uncomfortable that what this "extended tech industry" produces is often a bastardization of what we so loved and cared. I get it, different priorities, I'm fine with that too. What I am not fine wi…

I've always been a nerd. From birth. From the ugly glasses and the math team and the BBSs on. From dumpster-diving for computers because I couldn't afford them. From emacs vs vi.

I'm also female. I don't like being pushed out of my own d*&mned nerdy home by people who think I'm invading because I happen to stand up for myself.

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#310

Post by forgottenpass »

LordHumungous wrote: post #305
tedks wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's definitely spot-on. I think it has a great example of anti-feminist/male-privileged mindset: > Desire for civility and freedom from objectification is "censorship" > Wanting to not support misogynists/rape apologists/rape denialists/sexual predators is worse than the soviets > My fear of social ostracism is as or more valid than your fear of being raped > My chosen "identities" are as important as the assigned s…

>Wanting to not support misogynists/rape apologists/rape denialists/sexual predators "Rape apologist" is the left wing version of "terrorist sympathizer"

What an amazingly succinct description of political theatrics, I'm going to borrow that phrase.
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