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When Nerds Collide (2014)

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Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#271

Post by Thriptic »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #164
hueving wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, if someone launches an Internet lynch mob of social justice warriors at me that threatens the business, of course I would be fired. No company wants to be perceived as "the place that employs the most-hated sexist in the world" if they depend on selling to regular people. An Internet lynch mob can ruin SE rankings, launch DDoS attacks, etc. Anything that attracts one is a liability.

That is of course a very stupid behaviour of such company - by letting someone go because of SE rankings or DDoS attacks of angry, misguided crowd, you're just showing that this is a great way to influence you. So the next time the misguided crowd wants you to fire someone? They'll find something to get themselves offended about, get angry and DDoS you.

Companies are inherently shortsighted and beholden to their customers and shareholders (in public companies). Prolonged social attacks against a company may drive customers away or drop stock value, both of which negatively impact the company (and more importantly management) far more than letting one employee go. This probably significantly harms employee morale, but I doubt that's their primary concern.

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#272

Post by modfodder »

Lawtonfogle wrote: post #213
modfodder wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As to the rape statistics, those numbers are highly inflated and less inflated numbers show that men are almost as likely (if not equally) to face sexual violence (but far less likely to report it and far more likely to have it dismissed) and that men are more likely to face physical violence. Mind showing evidence that these numbers are highly inflated? >And now they being invaded by profit-chasers and blamed for t…

>Mind showing evidence that these numbers are highly inflated? For starters, look at recent CDC studies in the last 5 years. Pay extra attention to how most cases of a woman forcing a man to have sex are not classified as rape (which means the summaries about rape are way off). There are other resources that I don't currently have on hand about how they are over inflated, but one recent story was about how over infla…

I will look into the CDC studies and their possible shortcomings.

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#273

Post by Thriptic »

belorn wrote: post #85
dagw wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dongle thing didn't take place at a "nerd community" event, but at a professional conference. The problem, as it where, is that computers and programming is no longer the exclusive domain of the so called "nerd" and I don't think we should make joining a subculture a prerequisite for joining a career path.

The dongle "thing" did not take place at a nerd community nor a professional conference. It took place in a private conversation between two people who happened to be at a professional conference. The distinction is the same as if they were seated in a coffee shop. Conversations there are between private people, not with some coffee shop "audience". People who listen in to such conversation, and worse, reacts to it,…

I'm not sure where I stand on this issue of conversation privacy in public spaces, but I will say that at worst the individual should have called the people making jokes out at the time and suggested that their conversation was not appropriate in context. To passively aggressively take to twitter to gather a mob strikes me as total overkill.

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#274

Post by TeMPOraL »

LordHumungous wrote: post #269
TeMPOraL wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't such a blind spot. They may understand the "prime directive" pretty well and see how bullshit it is. It's a system of redistribution of scarce resources that most people got confused about and now play it as a game of its own. It's not the profit that should matter, but the value that is produced, the improvement of human condition.

Let's face it, 90% of companies in this industry produce nothing but meaningless bullshit. If you work at one of the few companies that is making the world a better place and not just selling ads, social media, games, or other diversions for rich people then my advice may not apply to you. I don't work for one of those companies, and I prefer to dispense with the notion that anything I'm doing is for the improvement…

> If you work at one of the few companies that is making the world a better place and not just selling ads, social media, games, or other diversions for rich people then my advice may not apply to you.

Unfortunately, I don't (and it depresses me). But then again, I treat my work as a neccessary evil, and I (try to) care about the product's face value, not underlying notion of it making money. That's for sales people to do; the best I can do is to make sure that what we build has at least some value to the end-user. It's about the attitude - when tasked to design a widget, do you primarily care about building a good widget, or performing a ritual of work that will bring the cash in?

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#275

Post by TeMPOraL »

Thriptic wrote: post #271
TeMPOraL wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is of course a very stupid behaviour of such company - by letting someone go because of SE rankings or DDoS attacks of angry, misguided crowd, you're just showing that this is a great way to influence you. So the next time the misguided crowd wants you to fire someone? They'll find something to get themselves offended about, get angry and DDoS you.

Companies are inherently shortsighted and beholden to their customers and shareholders (in public companies). Prolonged social attacks against a company may drive customers away or drop stock value, both of which negatively impact the company (and more importantly management) far more than letting one employee go. This probably significantly harms employee morale, but I doubt that's their primary concern.

I know the reasoning, but I suspect it's based on wrong assumptions. Management is afraid of taking a stand and doing the right thing, even though it would most likely end up well for the company, not bad. I see this as risk aversion.

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#276

Post by LordHumungous »

hexadecima wrote: post #222
TeMPOraL wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think the difference there that goth is a subculture, while tech and software development is a job. And here I think is the crux of the problem; it's what the article was about. Tech became mainstream, and attracted people who look at it as a job. From the point of view of us native nerds, we became colonized and are being pushed back from the thing we built as our little place in the universe where we would feel…

I don't understand this US vs THEM mentality. Yes, you were the nerd that might have been excluded from other people's world because they didn't deem you 'cool enough'. But now you are excluding others from joining your world. Are you not as bad as the people who made you feel displaced? Why not take the stance that you can be better?

Heres a dirty little secret about "real nerds". As far as bullying and exclusion goes, they give as good as they get. I knew some so called nerds in high school who were picked on. I knew more who socially isolated themselves by being arrogant jerks to everyone else, especially those they considered to be of lower intelligence. I dont fit the real nerd stereotype. I played football and I don't like dnd. I resent the notion that I am some kind of brogrammer picking on the poor helpless nerds. Who is really picking on who here? If it truly is about the code, as the author states, then why should this bs about authentic nerd culture even matter?

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#277

Post by Argorak »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #229
hexadecima wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand this US vs THEM mentality. Yes, you were the nerd that might have been excluded from other people's world because they didn't deem you 'cool enough'. But now you are excluding others from joining your world. Are you not as bad as the people who made you feel displaced? Why not take the stance that you can be better?

Because they're not joining, they're invading , and we have all the reasons to feel afraid that we will get pushed out again. And honestly, I'm fine with the fact that tech has grown beyond the culture that created it. I'm uncomfortable that what this "extended tech industry" produces is often a bastardization of what we so loved and cared. I get it, different priorities, I'm fine with that too. What I am not fine wi…

So, how come a lot of those projects creating those shifts are run by long-standing community participants? Are they traitors?

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#278

Post by Klockan »

dropit_sphere wrote: post #172
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people who try to join nerd communities and then immediately start complaining about "inappropriate behavior" (eg the dongle thing) You seem very sure about when Adria Richards (the lady involved in "donglegate") "tried" to join the nerd community. And yet you're wrong. Here's a partial bio from a recent article: "She was introverted, smart, and "weird" (according to the other kids)—a burgeoning nerd. By age 17, sh…

Is the dongle thing even remotely defensible? She got a man fired over a private conversation. One of the rules of civilized behavior is that you don't do that .

She didn't get the man fired, mainstream values got the man fired. In retaliation the hacker community did the same thing and got her fired. Sadly individuals will always get hurt when ideologies clashes.

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#279

Post by [deleted] »

picks_at_nits wrote: post #245
dropit_sphere wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What exactly did she do? I recall she complained on Twitter, and exercised her freedom of speech to express her opinion. What she did was escalate , and that unwisely. She added identifying info. Anyone familiar with the internet knows what can happen. Say I'm wrong, and that she never meant for it to get so out of hand. Where was her defense of mr-hank? She could have stopped the madness or even reversed it after t…

How about you don’t tell me what I’m going to say in response to you, and then you don’t argue with yourself ? What I’ll actually say is that you appear to have decided that she got what she deserved, and everything you’re arguing is post-facto reasoning to rationalize the decision you’ve already made. I might as well have a discussion with a volleyball.

[deleted]

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#280

Post by LordHumungous »

hueving wrote: post #74
arrrg wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uhm, I’m real confused. Why do you talk about “try to join nerd communities” with regard to the dongle thing? Do you know something we don’t? That seems more like a policy of exclusion from your side – ala obviously a real nerd wouldn’t ever find something inappropriate or be clumsy in how they complain about something. This whole thing is a way of cordoning yourself off, isolating yourself from criticism, shunning o…

Some scumbag got a guy fired by publicly shaming him on twitter for making a joke to his friend in a private conversation. That is one of the most hostile, weird, and hateful ways I've ever seen someone behave. It's a perfect example of counter-productive, oppressive behavior that was outlined in this article. Do you think getting that guy fired is going to suddenly change his sense of humor? Not likely. If anything,…

Wait wait wait. Hacker culture is all about radical honesty and voicing your opinion without regard to hurting others feelings... Except when its a woman voicing an opinion about something she finds offensive.
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