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When Nerds Collide (2014)

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Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#241

Post by dropit_sphere »

picks_at_nits wrote: post #200
dropit_sphere wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the dongle thing even remotely defensible? She got a man fired over a private conversation. One of the rules of civilized behavior is that you don't do that .

What exactly did she do? I recall she complained on Twitter, and exercised her freedom of speech to express her opinion. A number of people shared that opinion and also spoke freely about their opinion. In the fullness of time, his employers acted like craven cowards and sacked him. Did she sack him? No. Was he scarred for life? Ostracized? No, he found work again quickly. But what happened to her? A bunch of other p…

>What exactly did she do? I recall she complained on Twitter, and exercised her freedom of speech to express her opinion.

What she did was escalate, and that unwisely.

She added identifying info. Anyone familiar with the internet knows what can happen.

Say I'm wrong, and that she never meant for it to get so out of hand. Where was her defense of mr-hank? She could have stopped the madness or even reversed it after the fact with the right blog post. Perhaps she felt culturally unsafe in a big conference room surrounded by a bunch of white male Christian programmers, but when you complain, and someone gets fired over it, turns out you had more power than you thought, and with that comes responsibility.

In short: she started a lynch mob fight, and lost.

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#242

Post by TeMPOraL »

normloman wrote: post #221

Since when is there such a thing as "weird nerds" and "cool nerds" ? I've never heard people identify as such. Methinks it an arbitrary distinction invented by the author, to support his argument. I'm still not sure what the argument is. Also, since when do you have to join a nerd subculture to be accepted as a programmer? Since when is being a nerd and being a feminist mutually exclusive? I don't get this article. A…

As a "weird nerd", let me explain.

"Weird nerds" are the people who not so long ago were ostracized by society for their interest in science and technology. They weren't "cool", they weren't doing things that "cool" people do, so they were bullied. Many of them indeed became programmers and laid foundation of what is now the IT industry.

Then, tech became mainstream and seen as a very good career path. It started being "cool", so it attracted the "cool" people. As the nerd-type interests, like sci-fi, became less shunned by society, the industry started to fill with "cool nerds" - people who are nerdish, but not to the level of not being "cool".

You don't have to join a nerd subculture to be accepted as a programmer. On the contrary, majority of programmers employed today are not nerds or hackers. What has once been mostly a hobby, became a profession.

--

Or look at it in another way - "weird nerds" are usually the ones in real love with science and technology. "Cool nerds" are usually the ones for whom science and technology is just an occupation, a job.

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#243

Post by Nutella4 »

throwaway9324 wrote: post #227
ChiperSoft wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What exactly did she do? I recall she complained on Twitter, and exercised her freedom of speech to express her opinion. She took his photo and shared it on twitter. That's as good as calling him out by name. > Was he scarred for life? Ostracized? No That's not how he describes it. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/15/magazine/how-one-stupid-tw... Search the page for "Santa Clara" > To anyone on the outside of that in…

"That's as good as calling him out by name." As far as I know the guys name was not widely, if at all, published.

Yes, his name has been carefully kept out of public discussions. This is the patriarchy protecting his reputation while repeating the complainant's name as often and as widely as possible to make sure that anyone who dislikes what she did has a target for criticism and/or abuse while the people who dislike what he did don't.

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#244

Post by Cthulhu_ »

picks_at_nits wrote: post #200
dropit_sphere wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the dongle thing even remotely defensible? She got a man fired over a private conversation. One of the rules of civilized behavior is that you don't do that .

What exactly did she do? I recall she complained on Twitter, and exercised her freedom of speech to express her opinion. A number of people shared that opinion and also spoke freely about their opinion. In the fullness of time, his employers acted like craven cowards and sacked him. Did she sack him? No. Was he scarred for life? Ostracized? No, he found work again quickly. But what happened to her? A bunch of other p…

I think the problem with the whole event in the end was that people don't think too highly of other people's privacy anymore - posting someone's picture or even using someone's real name on the internet was unheard of and Not Done ten years ago, nowadays people just do it because IDK, they haven't gotten their required 100 tweets / day yet or something.

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#245

Post by picks_at_nits »

dropit_sphere wrote: post #241
picks_at_nits wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly did she do? I recall she complained on Twitter, and exercised her freedom of speech to express her opinion. A number of people shared that opinion and also spoke freely about their opinion. In the fullness of time, his employers acted like craven cowards and sacked him. Did she sack him? No. Was he scarred for life? Ostracized? No, he found work again quickly. But what happened to her? A bunch of other p…

>What exactly did she do? I recall she complained on Twitter, and exercised her freedom of speech to express her opinion. What she did was escalate , and that unwisely. She added identifying info. Anyone familiar with the internet knows what can happen. Say I'm wrong, and that she never meant for it to get so out of hand. Where was her defense of mr-hank? She could have stopped the madness or even reversed it after t…

How about you don’t tell me what I’m going to say in response to you, and then you don’t argue with yourself?

What I’ll actually say is that you appear to have decided that she got what she deserved, and everything you’re arguing is post-facto reasoning to rationalize the decision you’ve already made.

I might as well have a discussion with a volleyball.

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#246

Post by Cthulhu_ »

wpietri wrote: post #220
picks_at_nits wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly did she do? I recall she complained on Twitter, and exercised her freedom of speech to express her opinion. A number of people shared that opinion and also spoke freely about their opinion. In the fullness of time, his employers acted like craven cowards and sacked him. Did she sack him? No. Was he scarred for life? Ostracized? No, he found work again quickly. But what happened to her? A bunch of other p…

Exactly. And I'll add that a private conversation is one thing. A conversation had in the middle of a crowd is another. And it's another still when that crowd is at a convention with a code of conduct and the conversation violates it.

I think the article mentions how in the good old days, conventions didn't have (or need) codes of conduct and a politically correct squad on standby to escort people out of the building if they made innocuous jokes that anyone turning on the TV to watch a sitcom gets peppered with (followed by laugh tapes to make sure people understand that it was supposed to be funny).

What was said code of conduct? Saying things in a certain tone of voice is not allowed? Referring to a dongle as being big is not allowed? Their claimed violation was all very up for debate TBF.

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#247

Post by TeMPOraL »

misuba wrote: post #240
TeMPOraL wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really a pet peeve, it's a difference in thinking and perceiving the world.

The point is, how do you know the difference between something that's "who you really are" and something that you simply feel discomfort around being asked to change?

A good question.

I can't talk for all "weirdos", but let me tell you about my personal fears.

I fear that I will have to give up my intellectual honesty. I fear that I will have to start caring about politics (which I consider waste of time and something that shows the worst parts of our nature). I fear that I will have to start playing signalling games. I fear that I will have to censor my words and my thoughts, so that I don't express an opinion that is unpopular this week (winds on the Internet change fast). I fear that I will have to accept and participate in absurdity and irrationality I try so hard to stay away from.

I'm a very open, tolerant and accepting person. Just like every other "weird nerd" I know. But the crowd that tries to overwhelm us is not open, not tolerant, despite waving the banner of "diversity" and "equality". I fear I won't be allowed to be a nice, honest, decent person with interest in technology anymore.

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#248

Post by mkr-hn »

rthomas6 wrote: post #203
tedks wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's definitely spot-on. I think it has a great example of anti-feminist/male-privileged mindset: > Desire for civility and freedom from objectification is "censorship" > Wanting to not support misogynists/rape apologists/rape denialists/sexual predators is worse than the soviets > My fear of social ostracism is as or more valid than your fear of being raped > My chosen "identities" are as important as the assigned s…

I agree with you 100%, but I feel the need to point out that you can still be a "weird nerd" and have progressive values. I do not think hacker values and progressive values are mutually exclusive, but I think they are orthogonal.

Some of the weirdest nerds I know are more progressive than I am, and I'm pretty good at checking my biases and listening to people unlike myself.

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#249

Post by mkr-hn »

belorn wrote: post #85
dagw wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dongle thing didn't take place at a "nerd community" event, but at a professional conference. The problem, as it where, is that computers and programming is no longer the exclusive domain of the so called "nerd" and I don't think we should make joining a subculture a prerequisite for joining a career path.

The dongle "thing" did not take place at a nerd community nor a professional conference. It took place in a private conversation between two people who happened to be at a professional conference. The distinction is the same as if they were seated in a coffee shop. Conversations there are between private people, not with some coffee shop "audience". People who listen in to such conversation, and worse, reacts to it,…

What Donglegate did is reveal how many different takes there are on what constitutes public, and how unwilling people are to discuss it.

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#250

Post by Cthulhu_ »

MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #94
dagw wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dongle thing didn't take place at a "nerd community" event, but at a professional conference. The problem, as it where, is that computers and programming is no longer the exclusive domain of the so called "nerd" and I don't think we should make joining a subculture a prerequisite for joining a career path.

I think you got it backwards. The "dongle thing" is about a feminist bully, not about two guys making a harmless joke. The consensus is that Adria was the problem here, how anyone could come to a different conclusion is beyond me.

Adria just made a tweet, repeating their words; the real problem was the internet hordes on both sides of the debate that went at all parties involved's throats. That was the real escalation. The problem is the huge audience, where one tweet can reach millions of people, each with their own opinion and the ability to voice it instantly, within seconds. It's dangerous, really.
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