Earlier quoted context omitted.
Maybe he just liked her...
I like lots of women, that doesn't mean it's appropriate to ask all of them on a date.
What is "appropriate" or not is a subjective matter...
Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date after tech screen?
201–210 of 213 posts
Re: Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date after tech screen?
#202Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not trying to cause a stir, but where does it say he pressured her? I read it as "he asked me out on a date," not "he told me if I didn't go on a date with him he wouldn't hire me and he'd kill my firstborn." She had already not gotten the job. Not saying this is ok, but it doesn't sound like much pressure was applied.
> She had already not gotten the job. That's part of the point. If it were okay to ask a job candidate out after an interview, the incentive for an unscrupulous interviewer who encounters an attractive candidate is to scuttle the interview so he can ask the candidate out later on. That's just part of why this behavior is so highly objectionable.
So, hypothetically, if we were to believe in fate and love at first sight (humor me here), your suggestion is that an interviewer that has passed on a candidate through a rigorous interview process with multiple interviewers where everyone said no for the same (or different) valid reasons... Simply accept the fact that he will never be able to date his "one and only?" That he won't ever even be able to see "what could have been?" That seems awfully unhuman; to deny yourself and another human the possibility of a potentially blissful relationship, solely because "we once met in a professional setting" seems, frankly, dumb.
Now, if he were the sole interviewer, or if he cut the interview short, or if he asked her DURING the interview, this would be a different conversation. But we don't know that.
Not every situation is the same, and it should not /always/ be "totally unacceptable" to ask someone out on a date. If they say no, and you pressure them, that's a different story.
Sometime you have to apply reason to a situation and understand the facts before casting judgment and making blanket statements. I have no reason to say that what this person did is acceptable; for all I know he WAS the only interviewer, and he did pressure her. But that's just it - we /don't/ know, and you cannot cast judgment to say that this is unacceptable as a result, without knowing more about the intricacies of the situation.
Generalizations like this are how we get into trouble in the first place.
Re: Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date after tech screen?
#203Earlier quoted context omitted.
How can he abuse position of power if he asked her out after he turned her down for the job? He does not have a shred of power over her. If it was before he told her she is unsuitable- it is different case.
Sure he does. He could change his recommendation after the fact. Even if he couldn't, and even if he intends no such thing, she has no way to know that, and he should be aware enough of the power dynamic to understand how that impacts his request. It sounds like he was aware, and did it anyway.
In that case, would this have been better had he started it with a "Hey, so I have no method of changing anything at this point with regards to the interview, and wouldn't even do it if I could. But I was wondering..."
Would that have been easier for you to swallow? Because the fact that we, as a people, are so cynical as to assume the worst is, to me, incredibly fucking sad. :(
Re: Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date after tech screen?
#204Earlier quoted context omitted.
"People keep saying that there's no power dynamic because she already got rejected. I don't get it. Interview decisions can change. People can interview for a different position at the same company. It's not as straightforward as everybody seems to want it to be." Very unlikely for a start up that'll you'll interview again for a different position. They would just offer you the other position. Also very unlikely is a…
They don't always hire for everything at once. Why is it so absurd that a startup might hire for a different position a few months down the line? And why is changing a "no" to a "yes" unlikely? Do interviewers never change their mind afterwards? Personally, I'm not outraged because I "should be." I'm mildly annoyed at the person in question, and I'm outraged at all the people coming out of the woodwork to defend him.
"And why is changing a "no" to a "yes" unlikely? Do interviewers never change their mind afterwards?"
It's not that they never change their minds, it's more that they usually don't. Especially after telling someone officially they're rejected. If a company rejected me then phoned me up two days later saying they changed their minds I wouldn't look too favourably on them.
"I'm mildly annoyed at the person in question, and I'm outraged at all the people coming out of the woodwork to defend him."
Personally I just think he's a weirdo who's clearly not that smart. But I've seen some people call him a "sexual criminal". I'm like WTF! That's a bit extreme. That's the sort of thing the outrage culture is describing.
Re: Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date after tech screen?
#205Earlier quoted context omitted.
They don't always hire for everything at once. Why is it so absurd that a startup might hire for a different position a few months down the line? And why is changing a "no" to a "yes" unlikely? Do interviewers never change their mind afterwards? Personally, I'm not outraged because I "should be." I'm mildly annoyed at the person in question, and I'm outraged at all the people coming out of the woodwork to defend him.
"And why is changing a "no" to a "yes" unlikely? Do interviewers never change their mind afterwards?" It's not that they never change their minds, it's more that they usually don't. Especially after telling someone officially they're rejected. If a company rejected me then phoned me up two days later saying they changed their minds I wouldn't look too favourably on them. "I'm mildly annoyed at the person in question,…
You seem to be saying that changing the interview result isn't worth considering because it's not normal and would cause you to think poorly of the company, yet this whole discussion is about asking an interviewee on a date which is also not normal and causes me to think poorly of the company.
It has nothing to do with normality, just potential.
I haven't seen "sexual criminal" but rest assured that I'd object as strongly to that as I object to all the people defending this guy.
Re: Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date after tech screen?
#206Earlier quoted context omitted.
> She had already not gotten the job. That's part of the point. If it were okay to ask a job candidate out after an interview, the incentive for an unscrupulous interviewer who encounters an attractive candidate is to scuttle the interview so he can ask the candidate out later on. That's just part of why this behavior is so highly objectionable.
So, hypothetically, if we were to believe in fate and love at first sight (humor me here), your suggestion is that an interviewer that has passed on a candidate through a rigorous interview process with multiple interviewers where everyone said no for the same (or different) valid reasons... Simply accept the fact that he will never be able to date his "one and only?" That he won't ever even be able to see "what coul…
Hypothetically, if we were to believe in fate and love at first sight, the odds of any given person encountering his soulmate in a world of 7+ billion people are so minuscule as to be ignorable.
More than the power dynamic, I think the stronger argument here is privacy. If you submit your information to a company to apply for a job, it's with the assumption that this information will only be used to evaluate and possibly hire you. Imagine if you submitted your resume somewhere, and they started sending you advertisements in the mail. You'd be outraged! Well, this is the same sort of thing. She gave this company her contact info so they could evaluate and possibly hire her, and here's a company insider using that information to contact her for a completely unrelated purpose. Spam, with unpleasant overtones of power.
Re: Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date after tech screen?
#207Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sure he does. He could change his recommendation after the fact. Even if he couldn't, and even if he intends no such thing, she has no way to know that, and he should be aware enough of the power dynamic to understand how that impacts his request. It sounds like he was aware, and did it anyway.
In that case, would this have been better had he started it with a "Hey, so I have no method of changing anything at this point with regards to the interview, and wouldn't even do it if I could. But I was wondering..." Would that have been easier for you to swallow? Because the fact that we, as a people, are so cynical as to assume the worst is, to me, incredibly fucking sad. :(
That would be better, but still not great.
Note that it has nothing to do with assuming the worst. It's all about potential. For an extreme example, imagine a stranger almost fell off a bridge, and you're pulling them up. If you let go, they will fall to their death.
Is this an appropriate moment to ask them out on a date?
It's obvious to me that the answer is "no." You literally hold the power of life and death over this person. They have no idea what your intentions are. You've put them in a really tough spot and it's completely inappropriate.
Now, this has nothing do with assuming that you'd actually drop this person to their death if they rejected you. It's merely that there is the possibility. You might. Even if the odds are a million to one, put yourself in that person's shoes: would you take that risk? This is a total stranger. You don't know what they're like. It's possible they're a nutcase who freaks out whenever they're rejected. (I'm sure you've met people who do this.) Chances are good that they're a completely normal person... except, of course, that a normal person wouldn't be asking the question in the first place.
Now, the actual interview thing obviously is not on the same scale. There's no life-or-death situation (probably... stalking ending in murder is a real thing, and this guy knows where she lives) and it's fairly safe to say "no." But the potential is still there. We're not assuming the worst, merely acknowledging that the worst is possible, and that alone is enough.
Re: Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date after tech screen?
#208You know, I'm all about being laid back and rejecting traditional corporate culture, because you can be serious without a suit. But you still need the "be serious" part, which somehow got lost between all the ping pong tables and beer on tap. I actually think a big chunk of the industry encourages unprofessionalism, because professionals do really obnoxious things like negotiate compensation. I really hope that the t…
Is negotiating compensation the best example of something obnoxious? I don't see anything wrong with that at all.
Re: Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date after tech screen?
#209Earlier quoted context omitted.
> She had already not gotten the job. That's part of the point. If it were okay to ask a job candidate out after an interview, the incentive for an unscrupulous interviewer who encounters an attractive candidate is to scuttle the interview so he can ask the candidate out later on. That's just part of why this behavior is so highly objectionable.
So, hypothetically, if we were to believe in fate and love at first sight (humor me here), your suggestion is that an interviewer that has passed on a candidate through a rigorous interview process with multiple interviewers where everyone said no for the same (or different) valid reasons... Simply accept the fact that he will never be able to date his "one and only?" That he won't ever even be able to see "what coul…
I'll repeat:
If it were okay to ask a job candidate out after an interview, the incentive for an unscrupulous interviewer who encounters an attractive candidate is to scuttle the interview so he can ask the candidate out later on.
You haven't engaged that statement at all so I wonder why you responded to me.
Re: Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date after tech screen?
#210You know, I'm all about being laid back and rejecting traditional corporate culture, because you can be serious without a suit. But you still need the "be serious" part, which somehow got lost between all the ping pong tables and beer on tap. I actually think a big chunk of the industry encourages unprofessionalism, because professionals do really obnoxious things like negotiate compensation. I really hope that the t…
Is negotiating compensation the best example of something obnoxious? I don't see anything wrong with that at all.
I think you are missing his or her point a little. They mean that some management explicitly encourage a culture that believes that "free pizza" is worth as much as overtime, or that a ping pong table is worth as much a meaningful equity stake. You couldn't do this to lawyers or accountants or doctors or other "professionals" because they would see through it in a heartbeat.