Earlier quoted context omitted.
What if he's a 10x engineer? He's a massive PR liability because of our insane outrage culture, but he's a very valuable asset for, you know, his actual job.
From what I've heard, most companies will do the explicit math and decide whether to keep him or not. It's not unheard off. Personal Anecdote: I've known a friend, who keeps the most obnoxious programmer around at his company because he wrote the core money making algorithm by himself and is the only one who understands it. The ceo actively protects other employees from this programmer, but won't fire him because the…
Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date after tech screen?
151–160 of 213 posts
Re: Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date after tech screen?
#152Earlier quoted context omitted.
What if he's a 10x engineer? He's a massive PR liability because of our insane outrage culture, but he's a very valuable asset for, you know, his actual job.
If he’s interviewing, then that is his actual job. If he’s hitting on people while representing the company in any context, e.g. at conferences, that is his actual job. The way you framed this as a “PR liability” suggests you don’t think there’s anything wrong here, it’s just a question of dollars and cents to the company’s bottom line. That’s exactly the kind of sociopathy that is the problem. You have to stop and d…
Guard against this possibility is remarkably easy: Nobody hits on job applicants. If you are interviewing people, it is your duty to know this, and your company’s duty to ensure that you know this.
Either that, or you had better have one hell of a documented paper trail explaining how they were good enough to interview, but not good enough to hire, and explaining why the person you ended up hiring was clearly superior.
In my experience, any company with the kind of process that can defend itself against such lawsuits wouldn’t permit an employee to expose them to the lawsuit in the first place.
If one of their managers has read this, I’m sure they’re horrified.
Re: Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date after tech screen?
#153Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I actually think a big chunk of the industry encourages unprofessionalism, because professionals do really obnoxious things like negotiate compensation. I don't approve of this situation, but I also don't buy your general argument (especially for things like ping pong tables and beer on tap). You seem to be referring to "professionalism" as some concrete normative standard, but in reality, what is considered "profe…
You are misunderstanding my point. I am fine with ping-pong tables and beer on tap, if they come with professionalism, where professionalism includes things like not sexually harassing women. Alcohol especially needs to be handled with care, and encouraging employees to have more than one drink is downright irresponsible. My point was that there is a contingent of business-types whose gameplan is to use the fun stuff…
Your example of being invited to a bar after an interview is a perfect example. It's right on the edge of what could be considered professional, at least assuming you were in Silicon Valley where such things are presumably somewhat common. Many candidates might find this very appealing, while many might find it extremely off-putting or even hostile. Personally, I would be closer to the off-putting side, although that might not have been true 5 years ago. I'm not a female, but I can certainly imagine it feeling incredibly off-putting or hostile.
Re: Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date after tech screen?
#154Earlier quoted context omitted.
> When a policeman tells you to pull over, there's an implied "or you'll be arrested" that we all understand even though he never comes out and says so. When your crappy boss asks you to come work overtime on the weekend without any additional pay, there's an implied "or I'll make your life at this company difficult, or maybe just fire you" that he usually doesn't need to state. Both are those claims are simple to ex…
You're saying the other examples are clear because people actually do these things, but the date example isn't clear because men don't retaliate against women who refuse a request for a date? I'm not sure what I can tell you besides, yes, yes they do, all the time.
I'm not saying that men don't regularly do that. I'm saying I have absolutely zero evidence of men doing that. It might happen, but right now I am much more sure that policemen arrest people for refusing to pull over nearly 100% of the time than I am that male employers retaliate against women employees/candidates who refuse a date.
Re: Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date after tech screen?
#155Earlier quoted context omitted.
if he could hire her before the email, he can hire her after.
Did you read the post? > A few minutes later he sent me an email saying he'd spoken to his team and they were looking for someone with a lot more experience It was a team decision, and while the quote is not final, points more to the fact that he _isn't_ able to just unanimously reverse the decision. At that point, the entire team would have to be colluding.
Re: Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date after tech screen?
#156Earlier quoted context omitted.
Going to HR about this will not ruin his career. His harassment and unprofessionalism will ruin his career.
Unprofessionalism, certainly. Harassment, no. That's simply not harassment.
Re: Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date after tech screen?
#157So what are the rules for contacting someone you once interviewed in order to suggest social interaction? NOTE: I said "social interaction" rather than "a date" because I'm asking about more general situations. For instance, suppose you interview someone, and (unlike the guy in this incident) are not using the interview to try to find someone to date. You stick to questions specific to the job, plus more general ques…
Re: Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date after tech screen?
#158So what are the rules for contacting someone you once interviewed in order to suggest social interaction? NOTE: I said "social interaction" rather than "a date" because I'm asking about more general situations. For instance, suppose you interview someone, and (unlike the guy in this incident) are not using the interview to try to find someone to date. You stick to questions specific to the job, plus more general ques…
> Is it acceptable to contact them and tell them you are driving to the conference and would like to find someone to come along to make the ride more social, and asking if they would like to be that person?
Based on exactly how your question is worded, no. I think most people would feel uncomfortable with a relative stranger reaching out to them specifically and asking to carpool.
You have to consider the dynamics of the situation too: What are the ages of the people involved? What are the genders? What are their roles in the community, etc. These factors can make it anything from a friendly, but still not terribly appropriate request to downright creepy and possibly exploitative.
You brought up time, which is another dynamic to consider as well. I'm sure if we thought hard, we could come up with some nice rule of thumb like "if you're going to do this at all, it should be at least X weeks/months/etc later" - but really it's more about whether everyone can actually move on and what the new social dynamics are. If by this point the other party is well established in another company, not looking for a job, etc - it's much easier to put the whole interview behind everyone involved.
If you're both contributors to a project, why have you not interacted already? Have you been reading their social cues?
Some people are very open to meeting new people. If you interview someone and you genuinely find them interesting - see if they have a blog or twitter or something. See how they interact with people there. After considering the other factors, IF you decide to engage them, do it some place they are obviously comfortable and giving off cues that they want to interact.
Presumably there is some mailing list or discussion area for the project, see if they are open to interacting there.
You also need to be really honest and examine your own motivations and make sure you act accordingly and are not deceptive about it either to yourself or others.
If you're really interested in just making the trip less lonely, why not put out a general call? "Hey I'm headed to X conference, anyone want to carpool?" You might get some replies from people you're not interested in riding with for whatever reason, in which case you'll just have to deal with it in an appropriate way. Either tolerate them, or come up with some excuse to exclude that person politely ("oh, I think all the spots are accounted for, but I'll keep you in mind").
You'll have to accept that in a lot of cases, the fact that you had a failed business relationship with a person will preclude you having a personal relationship with them.
Re: Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date after tech screen?
#159Re: Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date after tech screen?
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is the best advice I've seen. Also I'd like to add,if you can don't escalate to a lawsuit prematurely. A lot of companies avoid hiring a person who files lawsuits against corporations. Its unfair, but its how the real world works. HR exists to protect the company not its people. I know I mention this a lot on HN, but also read Corporate Confidential to understand how American Corporations and HR really works.
It seems to me that informing HR, and telling him no (and why) is enough. I most certainly would not initiate a lawsuit over something like this. It was inappropriate and unprofessional; don't respond with something over the top, which is unprofessional in a different way. But I'm male, and have literally never been harassed at work over anything (not gender, age, race, religion, sexual orientation, facial hair, choi…