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Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower

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Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower

#341

Post by MrScruff »

exodust wrote: post #330
bluehat wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of every claim you have heard, this is the one you think isn't real?

Nope. She has all sorts of fictionalised anecdotes going on in her article. Can I know for sure? No. But I trust my BS meter more than this troublemaker. She describes herself as a "troublemaker" on her Twitter profile, which may or may not mean she makes things up to get attention.

FYI, you're responding to the OP.

And whatever your thoughts on her article, perhaps you should just keep them to yourself on the off chance that, you know, you might be wrong. She mentioned she can produce evidence for the DEFCON story elsewhere in this thread so you might want to get that $500 ready.

Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower

#342

Post by quadrangle »

lettergram wrote: post #67

I don't want to openly doubt rape, but jesus, several times over several months? Call the police, or at least avoid a situation if possible. Clearly she is willing to talk about it, so where's the police report? Also, every time I read one of these articles I cringe. There's a big movement to "include women in tech", but it's interesting to note that (in my experience) there is a large group (bordering on majority) o…

It is inherently bad to lack reasonable gender diversity in a field where there is nothing inherent about gender to the field of work. Lack of diversity inherently causes problems because diversity itself brings valuable perspectives to any field.

Look at this (especially the graph they link to): http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/16/business/16digi.html?_r=0

The lack of women in tech is serious problem, and you are part of the problem as long as you are among those trying to dismiss it as a non-problem.

Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower

#343

Post by tomp »

rayiner wrote: post #212
yason wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's quite different. She had an option to decline. Maybe it would've a very hard choice indeed, both socially and career-wise but she did have that choice. It might be convenient in some cases to broaden the definition of rape gradually but the bottom line is you can not be raped if you are simply able to walk away. It might be harassment. It might be blackmailing. It might be a lot of nasty, disgusting, and even…

If you threaten to punch someone in the face if she doesn't sleep with you, that's clearly rape. If you threaten to fire someone if she doesn't sleep with you, some people wouldn't call that rape (and the law wouldn't either). But I'd rather get punched in the face then lose a job I worked really hard to get. So why do we consider the latter not as bad? The belief that physical coercion is worse than economic coercio…

This is ridiculous. I'm "economically" coerced into working every day (i.e. if I don't work, my employer will stop paying me and fire me), but that's completely distinct from slavery, which is work forced using physical coercion (or threats of physical coercion), and is illegal.

What you're describing is essentially prostitution. While illegal in some jurisdictions, it's far from rape.

Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower

#344

Post by pekk »

abalone wrote: post #292
pekk wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"relationships where one person is financially dependent on the other." Suppose a couple lives together, and one tells the other: "let me sodomize you right now or I kick you out of the house and you can live on the street." What in the world would be the point of arguing that this is not rape? On the other hand, if there is no threat accompanying a demand for sexual access, it is obviously not rape and nobody is say…

Nobody argued that that isn't rape, but that's because you've folded in what sounds like a physical threat. "Kick you out right now and you can live on the street" sounds more violent than "have sex with me or I initiate divorce proceedings". The question is whether there's a distinction between economic coercion and rape. rayiner argues no, it's just as coercive as "pulling a knife", but most state laws (I believe)…

What I'm asking is: what is the point of trying to argue that certain kinds of coerced sex are not rape?

I wonder why HN is so sensitive to this line of questioning that they want to censor it outright. Are people emotionally attached to using certain forms of coercion to get sex, while thinking that it's okay or "not rape" because they aren't holding a knife?

Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower

#345

Post by pekk »

brazzledazzle wrote: post #269
pekk wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you arguing that blackmailing someone into having sex with you, or threatening them with consequences like having your career ended, isn't rape in the state of Illinois? Why?

If I were a woman I'd want to know where this was illegal or not. I want to know for my daughters when they grow up.

I'm pretty sure it is illegal, but nobody in this thread is a lawyer providing legal advice so that's moot.

What is the point of arguing that blackmailing people into sex isn't rape?

Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower

#346

Post by pekk »

meric wrote: post #294
frandroid wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because there was less rape when there were larger family. Right...

Dude. From the article: I had a boss once who knew he was sexist (also homophobic and transphobic), but was trying to get over it. He said some incredibly dumb things, like offering to have a company meeting at a strip club. He genuinely had bizarre concepts of what’s appropriate and inappropriate behavior. He was ashamed of this and really trying to improve. Listening to him quote the sexual harassment seminars was…

Who said that you are a rapist, or that being in favor of large families means you are a rapist?

Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower

#347

Post by aviziva »

U.N. Finds ‘Alarmingly High’ Levels of Violence Against Women - About 35 percent of women worldwide — more than one in three — said they had experienced violence in their lifetime, whether physical, sexual, or both, the report finds. One in 10 girls under the age of 18 was forced to have sex, it says.

Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower

#349

Post by jrochkind1 »

xtrumanx wrote: post #306
jrochkind1 wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where'd you get the inkling that I thought it was important to argue whether to word rape is the right word? The part where you engaged in argument about whether rape was the right word (for some hypothetical undescribed situation), arguing it was important not to use it unless it was... was where I got that idea. So, the whole comment. I'm sorry if I got the wrong idea, and at any rate I acknowledge I was reacting…

To be clear, by "I don't think I can safely ignore the rest of your comment" I meant I shouldn't let a comment like your stand unanswered. You're accusatory tone set me in a light that made me look like The Bad Guy™. I don't like looking like The Bad Guy™ so and having already been downvoted, for the "safety" of my reputation, I felt the need to respond to your comment.

I'm not sure what was more accusatory about my tone than yours; I asked a question "Are you saying..." just the same as you did. Do you think your post I was replying to had an accusatory tone? Please quote the section of my comment that gave you the idea I had an accusatory tone, and explain how it differed from your comment I was replying to. You've made a baseless assumption of my tone, and gone on a tirade.

(Yeah, now _that_, which I just wrote, does sound accusatory, I agree. from the demand that you quote me, to calling your post a 'tirade'. You know where I got the template.)

That's why I hate these sorts of topics on HN. The community morphs into a hot-tempered accusatory group of individuals who takes any discussion of gendered discrimination and violence in the workplaces as an attack on them personally, and responds by attacking the honesty, intelligence, or motivation of the women describing their experiences, usually while descending into philosophical sophistry instead of actually engaging the subject matter in an honest discussion of how we can reduce people's feelings of unsafety in our workplaces.

Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower

#350

Post by mcantelon »

ForHackernews wrote: post #334
mcantelon wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Your finance industry stereotypes are about 30 years out of date. Not as blatant as the "golden age", perhaps, but it seems "hookers and blow" still figure in the lifestyle. A former hedge fund trader published a book a couple years ago detailing how his company (within the last decade) plied clients with prostitutes and a wide array of illegal narcotics: http://nypost.com/2013/05/30/former-hedge-fund-titan-bares-a.…

The first sentence of your second link: > The excesses of 1980s New York investment banking as captured best (and with just a dose of hyperbole) by Bret Easton Ellis's American Psycho may be long gone in the US...

The first link I provided is about a book by an insider that details these excesses occurring in the 2000s.

According to one tip the SEC received in 2007 about Galleon: "Prostitution is rampant for executives visiting Galleon. You will find that the Super Bowl parties for the executives, paid for by Galleon Group, include prostitutes and other forms of illegal entertainment."

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