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Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower

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Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower

#121
post #113
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"In my personal view, getting raped is enough violence that I wouldn't prioritise my professional or personal comfort over getting justice. I am also considering that if some place would refuse me a job because I got someone charged for a criminal offence, perhaps that's not a place I'd like to work for in the first place." This kind of language is clearly coming from a place of privilege...someone who has never expe…

Why do you indicate "men" as "males", but "women" as "women" and not "females"? Seems odd.

I've used both terms interchangeably in several comments in this thread. I wouldn't read anything into it.

Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower

#122
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is there a movement towards broadening that definition to encompass any kind of sexual assault? Yes, there's a dangerous trend towards redefining rape to include unwanted looks, bad vibes, sex while intoxicated, sex that you change your mind about after the fact, sex that was not good enough, etc.

Source?

"MS. SOMMERS: I interviewed a young women at the University of Pennsylvania who came in in a short skirt and she was in the Women's Center, and I think she thought I was one of the sisterhood.And she said, 'Oh, I just suffered a mini-rape.' And I said, 'What happened?' And she said, 'A boy walked by me and said, `Nice legs'.'You know? And that -- and this young woman considers this a form of rape!" - http://www.pbs.org/thinktank/transcript132.html

"psychological rape" - http://www.avoiceformalestudents.com/wp-content/uploads/2014...

"For some females the trauma of eve teasing is almost equivalent to a mini rape which leads to depression and suicide." - http://archive.indianexpress.com/news/for-some-women-eveteas...

"the little rapes" - http://www.avoiceformalestudents.com/wp-content/uploads/2013...

"Politically, I call it rape whenever a woman has sex and feels violated." - http://books.google.it/books?id=rxE8FQzjpYMC&pg=PA82&lpg=PA8...

Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower

#123
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure that as a heterosexual man, regardless of my financial circumstances, no one could coerce me into giving blowjobs under the threat of losing my job. I'd quit and take my chances. What am I missing here?

Reduce the barrier. Make your boss an attractive woman, who over the course of months goes from asking you to rub her shoulders to release stress to holding her breasts. And now consider that perhaps you are in a committed relationship with someone else. At some point you crossed the line of acceptable intimacy (probably rather early) and it escalated from there as you were uncertain how to deal with the relationship…

Wait a minute.... do people actually do that? Do co-workers ask each other for massages and/or rub their shoulders?! I've never heard of that, ever. Inform me please. How often does this happen? I've always though the "unspoken rule" of the office is nobody touch anyone else, ever. I've never seen that rule violated except for people who've known each other for a good while, and it's usually 2 heterosexual guys punching each other in the arm.

Has anyone on HN seen a coworker give another coworker a massage?

I'm even a bit hesitant to give people high-fives. And those emotional goodbyes where you hug employees on their last day in the office? Those are very awkward for me, but everyone else is doing it... so... I just go along. =/

Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower

#124
post #41

I can't help but think this is a problem in america and not a problem in tech. Over here (UK) I've never seen or heard of anything like this. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong and I've just never seen it. Either way, it's not on and it needs to stop

I'd challenge everyone who hasn't seen this in the workplace to talk to their close female friends about the issue. You may be surprised by their stories!

The amount of downvotes I've got on the above comment really speaks volumes about the problem. It is shameful to me that I can get downvotes on a comment that suggests people actively listen to women.

Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not rape. Rape is sexual intercourse without consent. Edited to clarify. Oral sex without consent is also rape. Threatening to fire someone unless they give them a BJ is sexual harassment.

The word 'rape' is being re-defined now. The definition is being expanded far beyond what we called rape 20 years ago. Feminists are trying to do this in order to call attention to sexual harassment, but it is backfiring. They will dilute the term to the point where violent rape is no longer seen as the uniformly more serious offense that it is.

Well at least your priorities are in the right place, defending the right people.

You piece of fucking shit.

Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower

#126
post #77
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Story from a friend of a friend's law firm. Young associate worked for this partner. Over the course of months, he coerced her into giving him blowjobs. Eventually she quit. 1) Why is this rape? Because coercion doesn't just take the form of physical violence. 2) Why not report to the police? Because it's mutually assured destruction. Even if you bring the guy down, you'll be known as the woman who called the police…

Can you clarify what sort of coercion was involved? My understanding is that rape does involve physical violence, or at least physical coercion. In particular, "give me a blowjob or you are fired" is not rape, but "give me a blowjob or I'm not unlocking the door" is.

Rape is a colloquial term for a range of specific crimes with technical legal definitions. In NZ, for example, the former would be the crime of "Sexual conduct with consent induced by certain threats" (penalty of up to 14 years in prison), whereas the latter would be the crime of "sexual violation" (penalty of up to 20 years in prison).

Other countries might lump them together, or call them different names. If you're trying to discuss the actual crimes, you'd want to 1) mention what jurisdiction you're talking about and 2) use the actual names of the crimes as per the statute book. But as a practical matter, it's all rape.

Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not rape. Rape is sexual intercourse without consent. Edited to clarify. Oral sex without consent is also rape. Threatening to fire someone unless they give them a BJ is sexual harassment.

The word 'rape' is being re-defined now. The definition is being expanded far beyond what we called rape 20 years ago. Feminists are trying to do this in order to call attention to sexual harassment, but it is backfiring. They will dilute the term to the point where violent rape is no longer seen as the uniformly more serious offense that it is.

[deleted]

Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower

#128
post #32

I feel so naive asking this, but I really would like to better understand the specific scenario that led to being raped repeatedly "several times over months" by a colleague. Especially because it apparently happened to another female colleague by another man "in much the same way my attacker had raped me." I don't doubt FOR A MINUTE that this can happen but perhaps understanding the circumstances could provide a foc…

"A second colleague at a different institution held me against a wall against my objections and struggles and hit me with objects for his own amusement."

Now this sounds rather as an assault, a sick power play, but I would accept it called rape when it involved was sexual amusement but probably sexual assault would be a better term as it would not dilute the meanings confusingly.

Nonetheless this kind of behaviour is sickening and not acceptable by any means but it would explain why it was possible to tolerate it multiple times and how hard it was to do anything to prove that it happened.

Edit:

I think that it would be much easier to fight with such behaviour by calling it by actual names.

For example "Stop sexual assaults at work" would be in my opinion much more convincing and believable slogan than the exaggerated wording.

This would make the fight with the problem easier as it would not create that much confusion and opposition from it.

Using strong words creates opposition as people would find it by their own experience rather not believable but perhaps they have seen, heard something that would fit sexual assault definition or sexual harassment definition.

I believe that it would be much easier to define and establish the definition of sexual assault in peoples minds and educate them to see it than trying to redefine the established definition of rape in the society.

For clarification, I consider here acts that are described by

"A second colleague at a different institution held me against a wall against my objections and struggles and hit me with objects for his own amusement."

Now again, we should not tolerate this kind of behaviour and we should fight against it but I think it would be easier when we do not call it by too strong names as it would be then easier to establish this as wrongful and not acceptable behaviour in peoples minds.

I think that it is easier to fight with concrete problems individually rather than stretching the definitions.

Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower

#129

> he frequently came out with scary-harsh messages that had little relation to reality, like being worried about who he asked to help carry heavy equipment That's "scary-harsh?" Fact: women are not as strong as men. It's not even a question. Go look at weightlifting records, if you don't believe that. Even elite, lifelong female powerlifters max out at weights that a man in the same weight class can throw up for reps…

No I meant that I wouldn't have given two shits who he asked to carry heavy stuff. I'll edit it to make that more clear.

That makes more sense.

I can see how announcing every time, "I need a man!" would be grating, instead of just asking a guy to move the stuff without the fanfare.

Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower

#130

I've heard men in the tech space who I would normally have considered very nice people say extremely sexist / homophobic / transphobic things. When I've called them out on it, they've been surprised that anyone was offended. As I've said, otherwise really nice guys, but they seem to have just thought such comments were acceptable in the context of the 'community'. Strange stuff.

"they've been surprised that anyone was offended" What did they say?

Yes, and their apologists often sound like you. True fact: "We always say shit like this, it doesn't mean anything" is not justification for acting like an ass.
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