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Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower

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Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower

#81

Post by [deleted] »

woofyman wrote: post #74
rayiner wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Story from a friend of a friend's law firm. Young associate worked for this partner. Over the course of months, he coerced her into giving him blowjobs. Eventually she quit. 1) Why is this rape? Because coercion doesn't just take the form of physical violence. 2) Why not report to the police? Because it's mutually assured destruction. Even if you bring the guy down, you'll be known as the woman who called the police…

That's not rape. Rape is sexual intercourse without consent. Edited to clarify. Oral sex without consent is also rape. Threatening to fire someone unless they give them a BJ is sexual harassment.

[deleted]

Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower

#82

Post by bluehat »

woofyman wrote: post #74
rayiner wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Story from a friend of a friend's law firm. Young associate worked for this partner. Over the course of months, he coerced her into giving him blowjobs. Eventually she quit. 1) Why is this rape? Because coercion doesn't just take the form of physical violence. 2) Why not report to the police? Because it's mutually assured destruction. Even if you bring the guy down, you'll be known as the woman who called the police…

That's not rape. Rape is sexual intercourse without consent. Edited to clarify. Oral sex without consent is also rape. Threatening to fire someone unless they give them a BJ is sexual harassment.

That is not consent.

Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower

#83

Post by swatow »

RowanH wrote: post #43
mrbig4545 wrote: post #29

I can't help but think this is a problem in america and not a problem in tech. Over here (UK) I've never seen or heard of anything like this. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong and I've just never seen it. Either way, it's not on and it needs to stop

I'd like to say having worked in both Canada and New Zealand over 18 odd years now and I've never seen anything like this also. I read these articles and I'm simply stunned. I keep wondering what the heck is going on in companies/cultures/environments for these things to happen. Every time I read an article along these lines I feel even more grateful to work in environments where there haven't been glass ceilings, hi…

How diverse is your workplace? I think that a lot of the differences are not in the workplace culture, but how it is reported. I work in the US and I also have never seen anything like this (not that I would have necessarily seen it if it was common, but the same applies to you and other non-US commenter).

Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower

#84

Post by bluehat »

golemotron wrote: post #79
rayiner wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Story from a friend of a friend's law firm. Young associate worked for this partner. Over the course of months, he coerced her into giving him blowjobs. Eventually she quit. 1) Why is this rape? Because coercion doesn't just take the form of physical violence. 2) Why not report to the police? Because it's mutually assured destruction. Even if you bring the guy down, you'll be known as the woman who called the police…

I'm sure that as a heterosexual man, regardless of my financial circumstances, no one could coerce me into giving blowjobs under the threat of losing my job. I'd quit and take my chances. What am I missing here?

Being reasonably sure that wouldn't happen at the next job.

Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower

#85

Post by mynameishere »

abalone wrote: post #32

I feel so naive asking this, but I really would like to better understand the specific scenario that led to being raped repeatedly "several times over months" by a colleague. Especially because it apparently happened to another female colleague by another man "in much the same way my attacker had raped me." I don't doubt FOR A MINUTE that this can happen but perhaps understanding the circumstances could provide a foc…

this can happen

Yeah, it can happen by the Golden Horde, the Red Army in Berlin circa 1945, or Rotherdam/Oxfordshire imports.

But in realistic contexts is it possible? Is it possible that a woman can be raped at work? Sure. And not report it to the police? I guess. And continue working with her rapist? Umm... And then get raped again? And then not report it again? And then keep working there again? And then get raped again? Etc. Etc.

It's bullshit. Even Hollywood executives, island-owning venture capitalists, NFL players, and 1970s-era rock groups can't actually get away with this degree of abuse.

But to credit such abuse with beta male code jockeys? Bull.

Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower

#86

Post by golemotron »

woofyman wrote: post #74
rayiner wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Story from a friend of a friend's law firm. Young associate worked for this partner. Over the course of months, he coerced her into giving him blowjobs. Eventually she quit. 1) Why is this rape? Because coercion doesn't just take the form of physical violence. 2) Why not report to the police? Because it's mutually assured destruction. Even if you bring the guy down, you'll be known as the woman who called the police…

That's not rape. Rape is sexual intercourse without consent. Edited to clarify. Oral sex without consent is also rape. Threatening to fire someone unless they give them a BJ is sexual harassment.

The word 'rape' is being re-defined now. The definition is being expanded far beyond what we called rape 20 years ago. Feminists are trying to do this in order to call attention to sexual harassment, but it is backfiring. They will dilute the term to the point where violent rape is no longer seen as the uniformly more serious offense that it is.

Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower

#87

Post by Thriptic »

brandonmenc wrote: post #78

> he frequently came out with scary-harsh messages that had little relation to reality, like being worried about who he asked to help carry heavy equipment That's "scary-harsh?" Fact: women are not as strong as men. It's not even a question. Go look at weightlifting records, if you don't believe that. Even elite, lifelong female powerlifters max out at weights that a man in the same weight class can throw up for reps…

> Even elite, lifelong female powerlifters max out at weights that a man in the same weight class can throw up for reps with just a moderate amount of training.

That's not a true statement. A quick look at the IPF female world records shows an unequipped lifter putting up a 230 kg squat at 107 kg body weight. That would be considered almost an elite lift for a male of the same weight class, which requires far more than "moderate" training.

Regardless, the main point of your post holds true.

Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower

#88

Post by coordinated »

tomlock wrote: post #41
mrbig4545 wrote: post #29

I can't help but think this is a problem in america and not a problem in tech. Over here (UK) I've never seen or heard of anything like this. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong and I've just never seen it. Either way, it's not on and it needs to stop

I'd challenge everyone who hasn't seen this in the workplace to talk to their close female friends about the issue. You may be surprised by their stories!

I'm using a throwaway here since my normal account is my real name.

My mom went to Long Beach to meet my dad before they got married. He was returning from Vietnam at the end of the war. She was gangraped in a alley by about five guys.

My sister was raped by my cousin when she was 13 and we were on a camping trip. She is 40 years old now and after a night out crashed on a friends couch and woke up to him jerking off on her back (this was a few months ago).

Things like this happen a lot and shit like "I have never seen so it can't be true" are part of the reason why you barely ever hear of it.

If you have a mom and sister the odds are pretty good one of them have been raped.

Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower

#89

Post by geofft »

rayiner wrote: post #56
abalone wrote: post #32

I feel so naive asking this, but I really would like to better understand the specific scenario that led to being raped repeatedly "several times over months" by a colleague. Especially because it apparently happened to another female colleague by another man "in much the same way my attacker had raped me." I don't doubt FOR A MINUTE that this can happen but perhaps understanding the circumstances could provide a foc…

Story from a friend of a friend's law firm. Young associate worked for this partner. Over the course of months, he coerced her into giving him blowjobs. Eventually she quit. 1) Why is this rape? Because coercion doesn't just take the form of physical violence. 2) Why not report to the police? Because it's mutually assured destruction. Even if you bring the guy down, you'll be known as the woman who called the police…

Your comment reminded me of this story I read about a month back, which was pretty eye-opening to me as a male who's never been in a position to worry about these things:

http://jezebel.com/how-to-make-an-accused-rapist-look-good-1...

I'd known, intellectually, that a large fraction of rape is perpetrated by someone the victim knows and somewhat trusts. But the story here put concrete details to that and made me think. What do you do if someone you like, who you have been consensually involved with, takes advantage of you? What do you do if they had been, until then, your strongest support at a new school (or in a new job, or something), and social structures are that you're expected to keep working together? Is there even a better response than pretending it didn't happen, at least for a bit?

I'm also a little ashamed to say that, if I hadn't heard stories like this one and thought them through, I can see myself being the skeptical cop who says, well, why were you continuing to hang out with him and invite him over. And I'd known intellectually that skeptical cops were a problem that dissuaded reporting, and that it often was naïveté not malice, but never thought through what an actual case would look like.

Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower

#90

Post by bluehat »

learc83 wrote: post #69
rayiner wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Story from a friend of a friend's law firm. Young associate worked for this partner. Over the course of months, he coerced her into giving him blowjobs. Eventually she quit. 1) Why is this rape? Because coercion doesn't just take the form of physical violence. 2) Why not report to the police? Because it's mutually assured destruction. Even if you bring the guy down, you'll be known as the woman who called the police…

> Why not report to the police? Because it's mutually assured destruction. Even if you bring the guy down, you'll be known as the woman who called the police on her boss. Would the police do anything about the scenario you outlined above? Wouldn't sexual harassment where the boss trades sexual favors for promotions/job security be considered a civil matter in most places?

Fun fact: bringing a lawsuit against your company is not good for feeling like you're going to be getting hired places later: especially since I believe (not completely sure) you can only sue for punitive damages.
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